SHO no GO!

[illSHOyou]

Ok, Here is a update on my car. I put a charger on the battery becuase I have drained it trying to start the car. Well, the next day the SHO fired! So I took the car around the neighborhood almost twice ontill it just shut off again. I don't have a battery light on so I don't think it is the alt. The fuel pump is working, and the battery cranks the car ******* start up. The tach. reads 500-600 rpms when the starter is cranking. So I think that takes the CPS out of the equation. Now I have no idea what the problem is? Maybe coil pack?

Sean

 

[AutoSHO]

Actually, those are the classic CPS symptoms. When it wouldn't start after all that cranking, it probably still had a little coolant in/on it. Overnight it dried, and then started working. Then when you drove it your water pump leaked a little more and it failed again. You need a new water pump, CPS sensor, and you might as well do the timing belt and Accessory belts while you are there. Good luck!

 

[sdpatt]

Have you checked the codes? It could be the CPS, but you should have an incriminating code that points to the CPS. I also don't believe that the coolant is the failure mechanism for the CPS. I think it is temperature and vibration related.

When the car died while you were driving, did it stumble and sputter or just instantly die? If it sputtered, it isn't the CPS's doing. Probably fule related. If it just died, did you notice if the tachometer dropped instantly to zero? That would point to the CPS. When the car will crank but not start, check for a spark to one of the plugs. If there is spark, the CPS is off the hook. It would then most likely be fuel related.

illSHOyou, are you by chance double clicking on the "POST NEW TOPIC" button? It's creating two topics. Just one click is needed.

<small>[ April 14, 2002, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>

 

[illSHOyou]

Originally posted by AutoSHO:
[QB]Actually, those are the classic CPS symptoms.

Actually the water pump has been replaced during my last 60k, 10k ago. So I higly doubt that is it, though it could happen. If that sensor is failing then I don't understand why the tach is registering when the starter is cranking the motor. When my car finally hits the shop I will have them run the codes. By the way could I buy a code reader for cheap, or they pretty expensive?

Thanks

Sean

 

[AutoSHO]

Like sdpatt said, it may also be something like your fuel pump. It sounds like a CPS sensor, though. Do you have a timing light? Now is the perfect excuse to get one. Also, you can buy a code reader from your local parts store, or use the procedure on Shotimes to do it with a paperclip. Good Luck!

<small>[ April 14, 2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: AutoSHO ]</small>

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Have you checked the codes? It could be the CPS, but you should have an incriminating code that points to the CPS. I also don't believe that the coolant is the failure mechanism for the CPS. I think it is temperature and vibration related.

I have to disagree with this. In 80-90% of the CPS failures I've seen, the water pump has been leaking. It really seems like too much of a coincidence for it not to be the pump, however I can see how, in some situations, the vibration can cause failure.

 

[illSHOyou]

illSHOyou, are you by chance double clicking on the "POST NEW TOPIC" button? It's creating two topics. Just one click is needed.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Sorry about that, computer running real weird yesterday. The reason I know that fuel is getting to the motor is I turned the key on and off about 3 times, and went up to the motor and hit the bleader on the fuel rail and fuel went flying. So I would think that takes the pump out of the equation.

Sean
91+ Emerald Green

 

[Mike Stitzer]

My borther's 89 had a similar problem and it was the fuel pump. His would start and run for a while and then slowy die. Turned out the fuel pressure was only 10 psi and after the engine heated up, it was like vapor lock.

Mike

 

[illSHOyou]

Mike Stitzer:
My borther's 89 had a similar problem and it was the fuel pump. His would start and run for a while and then slowy die. Turned out the fuel pressure was only 10 psi and after the engine heated up, it was like vapor lock.

Mike

But its not like the car sputtered struggled a little bit and died. It just flat out quite on me. It fired up the other day and did the same thing. I drove it for 3 min. and it just quite, no sputtering or struggling at all. I thought most of you guy's with the water pump leaking would get about 15min. before the car would just not run, and then you could start it later. I tried to start the car a couple times and it wont kick over anymore. I plan on buying a code reader tonight.

Thanks for all your help!

Sean
91+ Emerald Green

 

[sdpatt]

You don't need a code reader to get the codes. You only need a short piece of wire to jumper the signal return and self test input terminals as shown in the following site. It helps to have a 1/4" spade lug on each end of the wire. You will use the 2-digit codes for your 1991. It only takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the codes with this method and doesn't cost a thing. all you do is install the jumper and turn the ignition key ON.

http://www.dalidesign.com/hbook/eectest.html
http://www.dalidesign.com/hbook/2digit.html

Scott

 

[stlooiesho]

Sean, I've got a code reader--don't go buy one. Stop by & pick it up... Just for general info, I bought this reader at AutoZone for about $30. Comes with booklet listing all the codes, etc.

-stlooiesho
'89 Koni's/Eibachs/poly/alum SFB/PP y-pipe
'94 ATX Toks/SFCs/96 brake upgrade

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Mikeys_Taurus:

Have you checked the codes? It could be the CPS, but you should have an incriminating code that points to the CPS. I also don't believe that the coolant is the failure mechanism for the CPS. I think it is temperature and vibration related.

I have to disagree with this. In 80-90% of the CPS failures I've seen, the water pump has been leaking. It really seems like too much of a coincidence for it not to be the pump, however I can see how, in some situations, the vibration can cause failure.

Scott maybe you missed this. I'm curious as to why you believe this. Can I get some more info as to why this is your opinion?

 

[sdpatt]

Yes, I saw it. The fact is that crank sensors fail whether or not the water pumps are leaking. There is a failure mechanism involved here other than water intrusion. Over the course of my SHO ownership, two cars and 322,000 miles, I have had three crank sensors fail. In each case, there was no evidence of wetting from coolant. Either the water pumps weren't leaking or they weren't leaking badly enough to touch the CPS. I have even destructively disassembled two of these failed sensors to try to determine the mode of failure. I found no path for the coolant to enter the epoxy-sealed sensor head. I did find a discontinuity in the sensor pick-up posts that was more likely the result of vibration fatigue or impact damage from the sensor ring. As an engineer trained in semiconductor circuits and root cause analysis, I cannot state with any confidence that leaking coolant from the water pump contributed to or solely caused the failure of the CPS. I didn't respond to the earlier post because I have stated this information before, and realize that people will believe what they want to believe. I just believe differently than many of you regarding this subject and there doesn't seem to be much point in trying to push my view upon you. That's all.

Scott

 

[SHOMEUP]

Very well said Scott.. thumbs_u

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Well I haven't been around long enough to hear that. It makes sense. So maybe the loss of coolant is creating a loss of pressure creating a hotter running engine, which over time causes the sensor to fail? Far fetched I know, but it just seems like too much of a coincidence. I'd be interested in hearing what you thing and for the record, I wasn't fighting you. I respect your opinion and that is why I asked why you believed that instead of just calling BS.

Oh... Jake, Mike, Bob, whatever your name is... Kiss my ass. squint