SHO Down

[shojim]

Hi
First post and urgent question. No surprise I'm sure. Original owner
My 89 at 67000 has occssionaly been lopeing/surging at idle and low rpm excelleration. I started the 60k a few weeks ago and so far replaced plugs, plug wires relay module. I figured If I stumbled onto a fix doing that it would be good. The problems actually got better after the initial work.
On the way to work this morning it began stalling and shutting down I barely got into the parking lot it was bucking like a bronco. It stalled several times and became difficult to restart offering backfire the last time. It will be spending the next few days here untill I can figure it out. Diagnostic code 18 and 19 came up.

Anyone have any idea where to start?

Jim

 

[lowc]

i would suggest doing the rest of the 60k sounds like the crank sensor might have some coolant dripping on it. im sure others will chim in.

And welcome to the forum. and if you get in a real jam thier are penty of good guys out your way that love tinkering with these things

 

[SuperHO]

Violent bucking like that is generally the result of a bad cam position sensor.

 

[zblackbeast]

See this thread...

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=116066

 

[lowc]

Violent bucking like that is generally the result of a bad cam position sensor.

even cause a stlling issue?

 

[zblackbeast]

Read the thread i posted in. The first code (18) sounds like a Cam sensor. the 19 is another ignition issue on its own... maybe a bad PCM

 

[shojim]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. I just replace fuel pump and cleaned contacts and ground connections. It still stalls out 10-20 seconds starting. One more thing , the tach stopped working awhile back. Any connection? Looks like I have some work cut out if I need to replace crank and cam sensor. Seems I will need to look at the timing belt and water pump if I am going in that far. I will need to work up some courage to take that step. How many hours do you will it take for driveway mechanic.
Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. I just replace fuel pump and cleaned contacts and ground connections. It still stalls out 10-20 seconds starting. One more thing , the tach stopped working awhile back. Any connection? Looks like I have some work cut out if I need to replace crank and cam sensor. Seems I will need to look at the timing belt and water pump if I am going in that far. I will need to work up some courage to take that step. How many hours do you will it take for driveway mechanic.
Jim

Tach stopping is most likely due to the cam sensor , If you dont want to go too deep in this , I would start by replacing the cam sensor first.

 

[shojim]

Okay, now I removed and cleand the MAF. Did not help. Going to try cleaing the IAC now.
obviously tring to avoid tearing into the front.
Jim

 

[shojim]

cleaned around what I think was the connections to the IAC. Idled longer befoer stalling , but the tach needle jumped! The needle had been resting just below the 7000 RPM mark and when I hit the throttle to keep her going the needle jumped back toward the 7000 mark each time. ??

Jim

 

[SHO_ROLLER_2]

My car did the same thing last weekend. It was running a little funky then just started dying.

Changed the Cam sensor and runs fine now. Although I still need to replace the cam seals. Being that your car is in need of the 60K's, I'd say cam sensor and get ready to do the seals,

As for the tach, IDK.

 

[shojim]

After changing cam sensor, still surging and stalling at idle. Some oil in the cam sensor casing, Tach still stuck at 8000. Caution! Cam sensor change requires tiny hands, so bring some to the party.
So,no change. Any ideas what is logically next.

 

[lowc]

didnt see this mentioned but have you checked for vac leaks for the surging

 

[luigisho]

Easy test for MAF failure is to see if it runs better with it unplugged. I agree that it might be a failed computer. Code 19 is EEC power supply failure or CID failure. Hopefully the new sensor is functioning properly.

 

[shojim]

show down

Removed MAF cable and the symtems are worse. Started and stalled. tried again with more throttle. As soon as I backed off throttle it stalled. Does that indicate the MAF is okay? Ceck for vacuum leaks? I think put thumb over the tube after pulling off is not going to be the procedure.??

Jim

 

[lowc]

imo the best way to check for vac leak is to get it running at a stedy rpm and spray some brake cleaner around the intake PAY ATTENTION to where you are spraying as if the idle changes where you spray, you found the leak

 

[Eric VerValin]

Honestly.. there are a ton of places you could get a small leak. Follow that plastic manifold.. there are a couple on those butterfly actuators even that might be leaking. Just look over everywhere your hands, and elbows might have been .. might have knocked something loose thats not right on the motor... like the little vac canister purge valve that hangs near the coil pack.

Double check the 10 bolts that hold the intake down... check all clamps.. I'd bet its something simple.. good luck

 

[Ex3Cutioner8]

i would check grounds, starting with the one from the back passenger side of the intake to the firewall, and for vac, i would check the line to and from the fuel purge solenoid, good luck

 

[somedude_001]

Removed MAF cable and the symtems are worse. Started and stalled. tried again with more throttle. As soon as I backed off throttle it stalled. Does that indicate the MAF is okay? Ceck for vacuum leaks? I think put thumb over the tube after pulling off is not going to be the procedure.??

Jim

normally once you unplug it your car will stall or stumble for a few sec (2-4 sec) until the car drops into limp mode. Once that happens the car should run perfect. If it is still stumbling you have another issue a bad ignition module could cause this issue. Either it has a bad ground or the module it self is starting to go out. Is there anyone near you that can give you a spare to test? A intermittent bucking/ backfire issue is not descriptive of a failing coil pack.

I assume you check all of your plug wells for oil and they are clean? The oil will damage plug wires over time and cause them to arc to the valve covers.

Can you describe in as much detail as possible what your symptoms are after replacing the cam sensor, as well as any change since replacing the sensor.

 

[shojim]

Still would not idle without stalling unless rpm was kept above 3k.

WOW! I noticed the dealer had left the connections to, I think, the crank sensor out of position. I unplugged the bundle and tried to start, nothing. I started to unplug the single wire and the wire pulled free of the connection.
I resoldered the connection and reassembled it. I now have a start with idle at normal RPM. I will never again be surprised by this Beautifull engine. only wonder what bizzare and unantisipated problem will happen next. The hours I spent and the parts I replaced and --- this. I am not out of the woods untill I do further testing after a warm up and attempt to read the codes, but for this part of the journey I am through and going home to see what tommorrow brings. At least I am part way through the 60K! Hope the PHoto came through, my first try.

Jim