Shim Material

[CWhalenSHO]

Does anyone know what the actual metal that was used to make the shims?

I know it's a softer composite than the camshafts, but that's all I know.

:thankyou:

 

[93rev2sev]

It's on the forum somewhere...search for it.

 

[CWhalenSHO]

I've done a search. But I can't find the name of the actual alloy that was used to make them.

 

[93rev2sev]

Um.

Alloy is the name.

 

[93rev2sev]

When you are talking about metals, there are very few "actual" names.

It's like making cookies. A "chocolate chip" cookie can be hard or soft/with or without nuts.

Just like stainless steel can have more or less carbon. It can be hard OR soft.

A metalurgist could take a hundred shims and find differences between them. In stainless steel, there are some common designations...
(Ripped from the paged of Wikipedia)
EN-standard
Steel no. k.h.s DIN
EN-standard
Steel name
ASTM/AISI
Steel type
UNS
440A S44002
1.4112 440B S44004
1.4125 440C S44003
440F S44020
1.4016 X6Cr17 430 S43000
1.4512 X6CrTi12 409 S40900
410 S41000
1.4310 X10CrNi18-8 301 S30100
1.4318 X2CrNiN18-7 301LN N/A
1.4307 X2CrNi18-9 304L S30403
1.4306 X2CrNi19-11 304L S30403
1.4311 X2CrNiN18-10 304LN S30453
1.4301 X5CrNi18-10 304 S30400
1.4948 X6CrNi18-11 304H S30409
1.4303 X5CrNi18 12 305 S30500
1.4541 X6CrNiTi18-10 321 S32100
1.4878 X12CrNiTi18-9 321H S32109
1.4404 X2CrNiMo17-12-2 316L S31603
1.4401 X5CrNiMo17-12-2 316 S31600
1.4406 X2CrNiMoN17-12-2 316LN S31653
1.4432 X2CrNiMo17-12-3 316L S31603
1.4435 X2CrNiMo18-14-3 316L S31603
1.4436 X3CrNiMo17-13-3 316 S31600
1.4571 X6CrNiMoTi17-12-2 316Ti S31635
1.4429 X2CrNiMoN17-13-3 316LN S31653
1.4438 X2CrNiMo18-15-4 317L S31703
1.4539 X1NiCrMoCu25-20-5 904L N08904
1.4547 X1CrNiMoCuN20-18-7 N/A S31254

These are just "recipies".
My golf clubs are "10-34" stainless....wait...thats not on the list. What gives? EVERY batch of any ALLOY is different from any other batch.


I guess I'm just sayin...

An alloy (By Definition) is a bunch of metalic elements mixed and cooked...just like cookies. If you want your cookies chewy, add an egg. If you want your stainless steel to be harder, add more carbon. You want it more "pure" cook it longer. Want it malleable(sp), add nickle.

There is no "name" for the metal that is used in our shims. If you want the "recipie", go to college and become a metalurgist...or hire one...or goto Japan and search for the (I'm sure proprietary) recipie/s. (I'm sure there is more than one).

 

[CWhalenSHO]

Wow...ok, I didn't know it was that complex.

I thought they may have used a specific metal to make them(since they are softer than the cams)....but when you put it that way, I guess not.

Thanks for the info.

 

[93rev2sev]

how do you know that they are softer than the cam?

 

[SHOIT0ff]

i have been wanting to buy a bunch of shims to test the hardness but have not came across a cheap set on ebay. but if someone works at a heat treat company or tool and die shop (like me) they can check the hardness of the shim with a Rockwell C tester. Basically its a glorified vise that sits vertical. it uses a small conical diamond to penetrate the metal and then a reading is given on the scale provided. The shim is placed on the base and moved towards the diamond. pressure is applied to the shim by the diamond and once the needle is set to zero you pull a handle and the diamond is forced into the shim automatically. once this diamond stops penetrating a number is read on the machine. If someone has a shim that they don't need and have a friend that can access a RC tester have him check it. i think it would be great if someone can make these on the fly for people needing specific thickness. I personally can make various thickness at work, heat treat them and finish grind them to a specific thickness. but i need to know the hardness of the shim......

 

[Phoenix]

That would be great because I think the shims are harder. I may be the only guy in here thinking that way because it defies all logic.

Still , I havnt seen any worn or grooved shims up to date. Im still waiting on someone , one day , will bring a solid evidence of it.

I also tied to drill one with a carbide bit unsuccessfully.

I could be wrong though , but it's how I see it for now.

 

[CWhalenSHO]

93rev2sev:

I don't think they are softer. I actually tend to agree with Phoenix and want to say they are at least just as hard as the cams.

The reason why I said they are "softer" is because everything I have read states that the shims are sacraficial (sp) to the cams. My interpretation of that means they would have to be softer so as to not wear on the cams With that being said, it makes sense to me to think that the shims would be softer than the cams.

But, then I've also read that if you don't change the shims, eventually they will wear and damage your cams. Which makes me tend to believe that they are as hard if not (just saying maybe) harder.

So I guess I'm just reading some some conflicting info and was wanting some sort clarification. I am sort of a newb to all of this.

 

[93rev2sev]

What would happen if the shims were softer and had extensive wear?

Would they not get thin in the middle? Measure a worn one...on the edge with a decent micrometer....now measure it in the middle.

Now measure a 200,000 mile cam. Base circle to lobe tip. A 60,000 mile one?

Which has more lift?

Is it the cam or shim that wears???

The Cam. The shim wears...but not as much.

Of course ... I'm just guessing...someone go measure.

 

[Phoenix]

Like I said I think its the cams that gets the wearing. Its mind boggling , but thats my theory.

Did you ever heard a guy that said " Hey I slammed a +0025 shim (to adjust them) and my filler gauge read that the gap is even bigger then before?"

(because that shim was worn out.)

Did you ever saw a shim with a slight curve in it specially more in the center (the lobes never touches the edges) from wear. I never saw that yet and Ive handled 300+ shims from high millage cars.

Like I said , its mind bogging.

 

[Lightning]

probably more of a case of heat treatment rather than material. You should be able to make shims from most any high carbon alloy, as long as you get the heat treat right.

 

[AREA 91]

i have been wanting to buy a bunch of shims to test the hardness but have not came across a cheap set on ebay. but if someone works at a heat treat company or tool and die shop (like me) they can check the hardness of the shim with a Rockwell C tester. Basically its a glorified vise that sits vertical. it uses a small conical diamond to penetrate the metal and then a reading is given on the scale provided. The shim is placed on the base and moved towards the diamond. pressure is applied to the shim by the diamond and once the needle is set to zero you pull a handle and the diamond is forced into the shim automatically. once this diamond stops penetrating a number is read on the machine. If someone has a shim that they don't need and have a friend that can access a RC tester have him check it. i think it would be great if someone can make these on the fly for people needing specific thickness. I personally can make various thickness at work, heat treat them and finish grind them to a specific thickness. but i need to know the hardness of the shim......

I've got some shims.