**PROGRESS UPDATE**RUNS!!**New Problem, See Last Post**

[JoeHoe_SHO]

This 92 is starting to be a headache. I can't read codes from CEL, can't read codes from computer w/code reader and I sure as **** don't want to start replacing parts that I "think" would fix it...that can get pretty damn expensive.

Anyone interested in taking a trip out to good ol' Albion NY(west of Rochester) and at least make it so I can read a code. I can pay and feed you. I really wanna get this car back on the road, and if I don't get it fixed soon, I'll just sell the car and be done with it. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

I think its either IAB valve or CPS. Car won't start, when it does...quickly stalls out. Seems to have fuel pressure, sometimes spark, MAF looks to be alright. Please help

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: JoeHoe_SHO ]</small>

 

[AutoSHO]

Swap computers with your '89. It sounds like the computer is bad if it wont spit codes.

 

[Jr's Sho]

CCRM maybe?

 

[JoeHoe_SHO]

AutoSHO:
Swap computers with your '89. It sounds like the computer is bad if it wont spit codes.

I don't know how to do that and why would I want a bad computer on my 89. Thats the one that runs good

What the **** is a CCRM

If someone would like to stop by and do a swap or test something...its worth $$$ to me...how bout you?

 

[Jr's Sho]

Is your CEL light coming on all when you start the car or turn the key to run? Are you having problems getting the car to start? The CCRM is located on top of the drivers side of the radiator, with a large plug going to it.
The reason Chris stated to swap computers is to see if the one in your 1992 is bad or not. Aren't the computers different between those years?

 

[Jr's Sho]

Hey, I just read your previous posts. I am about 90% sure it is your CCRM. Take the one off your 1989 and put it on your 1992 to see if it fixes it. It is located under the black plastic VECI panel and there are two nuts and one connector holding the module to the frame above the radiator.
A friend of mine had the exact same problems, it would start and then not start and he also had no CEL at all. Swapped ccrm's and it was fixed. That's the good thing about having two cars.

 

[AutoSHO]

JoeHoe_SHO:

AutoSHO:
Swap computers with your '89. It sounds like the computer is bad if it wont spit codes.

I don't know how to do that and why would I want a bad computer on my 89. Thats the one that runs good

What the **** is a CCRM

If someone would like to stop by and do a swap or test something...its worth $$$ to me...how bout you?

The reason you would want to put the 89 computer in the 92 is because that would tell you if it is the problem or not.

 

[Adi Agaj]

Hey man,

I had the same problem before, like almost 4 months ago with my 1992 5 speed MTX SHO.
i excperienced and had almost the same problem as you you having now. -->>> i was driving the road one day and imideately my car shut off when i came to a full stop and put the gear on neutral. after then i try to start it again but it started stayed like 3-5 sec and shut off again.i tried it and tried but was doing the samething until gave up and just crancked.
i towed the car to Tony watertown service in Watertown, Mass (he is e special technician for SHO's) and he told me that my fuel pump had failed, even though when i checked the presure of fuel i had e little coming to the engine.
__________________________________________________
if you buy an aftermarket fuel pump at autozone or another parts store will cost around $ 60 + $ 8-10 for the strainer + $ 8 for the fuel filter. you can do the job your self so you can save yourself some good money( around $ 250 labor).

well i hope this helps man, and if you try it let me know if it worked out.

 

[BeatDaSHO]

Well, this might be a far stretch here but.......my brother and i picked up this sweet SHO for real cheap. It wouldn't run and wouldn't spit any codes. After 15 hours of diagnosis, we figured out that 1 wire going into the computer wasn't making good enough contact and another wire that was going to the computer was spliced open. We fixed that up and it finally started and spit out codes. PERFECT!

Greg

 

[JoeHoe_SHO]

Jr's Sho:
Hey, I just read your previous posts. I am about 90% sure it is your CCRM. Take the one off your 1989 and put it on your 1992 to see if it fixes it. It is located under the black plastic VECI panel and there are two nuts and one connector holding the module to the frame above the radiator.
A friend of mine had the exact same problems, it would start and then not start and he also had no CEL at all. Swapped ccrm's and it was fixed. That's the good thing about having two cars.

Let me make sure I understand this...the CCRM is not by the firewall, and is not part of the EEC or whatever? Its near the front driver side of the engine bay near the radiator...just went out and looked under the hood of the 89...is it under the plastic panel thing w/belt directions, and other ford stuff printed on it? 2 small bolts, wire that plugs into it ect? I feel like I'm getting some where here, keep the help comin! thumb

Are you sure I can swap these parts w/92? How much are new ones? Someone just make sure I got my parts straight. I really wanna get this thing running so I can atleast sell one of these damn cars.

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: JoeHoe_SHO ]</small>

 

[SHO_Driver]

Just go ahead and swap the CCRM's, that relay you saw under the platic. If no change then try swapping computer's. It seems like either one could be causing your problems.

 

[JoeHoe_SHO]

I'm pretty sure I could swap CCRMS w/o problems, but I dunno about the computer. I'll give it a stab if its not the CCRM.

 

[Mark W]

I had a similar problem where the car would start, but then die after a few seconds. It always had fuel pressure. I was able to get the CEL codes, though, and it indicated the Low and High speed fuel pump relays were bad. They are located, of course, in what the guys are calling the CCRM (I've always heard it called the ECM, or ICM, but it's the same thing). New $180 part from Ford (replaced UNDER WARRANTY - it failed while still new), bingo no problem.

The car would start because there is a third relay that controls the fuel pump on start up, then the Low and High speed relays inside the CCRM take over. Good old Ford - never make it simple when complicated will do.

Key difference here is I was able to retrieve the CEL codes. If the CCRM fails, it doesn't prevent you from reading them.

 

[projectSHO89]

Mark,

Correcting a few misconceptions in your post...

The CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) is the 93-and-on terminology. For the 92-and-previous it is called the IRCM (Integrated Relay Control Module}. Same thing, just a name change to comply with SAE terminology.

The relay module holds either one or two fuel pump relays (not three) depending on the year and the model. There is no third relay in any of the SHO fuel pump power systems.

Failure of the EEC power relay within the relay module WILL prevent codes from being read.

The ECM is the Electronics Control Module, that is the "computer". It is also known as the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) or the EEC.

The ICM is the Ignition Control Module, better known on the SHO as the DIS. On the other hand, Mitchell's schematics use the term ICM for the ICRM.

CCRMs (IRCMs) can only be properly swapped if they are the same part number. Look for that large letter on the label and make sure that they are the same before swapping them. If they are not, they may not be interchangeable.

Steve

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: projectSHO89 ]</small>

 

[projectSHO89]

Back to the original issue...

Failure of both the CEL and the code reader to output codes can be attributed to something as simple as a burned out CEL bulb (or it could be more).

If you go back to your original thread, I posted a link to an older thread in which I advised how the TROUBLESHOOT THE "NO CEL SYMPTOM". Go there and perform the simple task I described. While no all-inclusive, it will point to the proper direction for further diagnosis insted of just swapping out parts that might (or might not) be the problem.

There are advantages in not starting a new thread every few days for a continuing problem. Maintaining continuity of steps performed is important!

Steve

 

[JoeHoe_SHO]

I'm not sure if it is the CCRM now or not. Brian(bought the car from*BAMSHO) said he replaced the CCRM. He suggested alternator, said his died after carlile. Never thought about that...the car cranks, door dings, lights don;t dim...I will check it out tommorow. I really wish I was more car litterate.

And the reason I didn't follow your original thread is cause I'm not damn electrician and that stuff is greek to me. Wanna make some cash, come to my house and do it for me. Hopefully I get this problem solved

 

[Jr's Sho]

Hey, an alternator has nothing to do with no CEL. All I can say is that a friend of mine had the EXACT same problems as you have and his ICRM was bad. I'm not exactly sure if your IRCMs are the same but it will not hurt to try to swap them. If your CEL bulb is not burned out and you still can't get codes, then you have a break in the wiring for that circuit. Like Steve said, if the EEC relay fails in the IRCM, then there's your problem. You will not know until you try it, I have swapped parts out on my 1992 and 1993 to diagnose problems and will continue to do so. I would hate for you to buy a bunch of new parts only to find out it was something you could have tested. Keep us informed.

 

[AutoSHO]

Swapping the ICRM = 2 nuts and a wiring harness.

Swapping the EEC = 1 screw and a wiring harness.

This will take you probably a total of one hour to swap both parts and have both cars back together. My '92 and another I know of both had a problem with the engine wiring harness being rubbed through right back by the Computer. Not sure if its your problem but if the first two dont fix it, its worth a look.

<small>[ September 20, 2003, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: AutoSHO ]</small>

 

[SolidState]

you changed the waterpump on your old ATX and can't build up enough courage to swayp the CCRM and/or EEC?

 

[JoeHoe_SHO]

Okay, its not the CCRM, swapped parts and both 89 and 92 CCRMs work. It was the computer, there was a bolt that was loose and stripped where the computer goes into the firewall. The car seems to run fine with the computer held(by hand in position) I was even able to get the CEL lit and read a code which points to a computer short or bad connection

Code is 511 (O) No power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (processor)

This was after I swapped CCRMS, IAB, and DIS w/89 with no success. I even changed out the fuel filter. I'm thinking I need a new computer or a new bolt that holds it in place.

I saw how easy it was to swap the CCRM, shit, took me like 2 mins. I was intimidated by the name. Does the computer come out through the glove box or engine bay?

Let me know what that code means too, I'm pretty sure it is telling me that the computer connections are bad. The CEL came on like I said, so if I hold it in a certain position, everything seems to work fine. Also, the car does have an LPM(SS) and the plastic bracket that looks like it holds up the computer was sitting in the glove box un-installed. Could that be the problem. I can't put it back on w/o removing the LPM.

Another thing, my tach is way off(like 4K off) Car lacks power as well...that could be the comp. not connected right, cause I can't hold the computer in place and drive at the same time. Hmmm...still need help, but I think I made progess.

Don't mind me, what I don't know about scares me. And yes, I've done 2 waterpumps and a CPS and I'm timid about the computer...not so much anymore but I was. Thanks for all the help! Any suggested courses of action is appreciated! Thanks