Oil?

[SHOtimer]

Ok I know everybody here (or almost everybody) reccomends Castrol 10\30. Anyways this is my first SHO. When I got it the rear main, oil pan, and front crank all leaked, rather badly, leaked on the cats and smoked badly. Took it to Ford and for 700$ fixed the oil pan and crank, rear mail too much $ right now (950$). Anyways, they wouldn't warranty the work because it has 130k on it and cuz of that has high crank case pressure and that the seals might blow out again because of that, is that true? Second, I use 5\30 on the car, and am afraid if I go to 10\30 will the increased oil pressure cause these seals to blow? Don't have a lot of money (in college) but am willing to fix my car, so don't want to blow these seals using a thick oil? Suggestions?

 

[steevil]

a small start would be to install a crank-case breather.

It functions in much the same way a PCV valve does but does not suck the oil vapors back inot the manifold but merely vents it into the engine bay.

This will go a long way to prolonging oil seals.

A crankcase breather will not allow the crank-case to pressure up.

K&N sells one that essentially screws on in place of your oil fill cap. A breather needs to be filtered as the crank-case will create a bit of a vacumn when cold.

Please be aware that a crank-case breather is not emissions legal but is easy enough to remove when you need to do any emissions testing.

The difference between 5/30 and 10/30 is small and shouldn't present a problem. I prefer to use a slightly thicker oil anyway as is offers more protection during cold start-ups.

<small>[ September 10, 2002, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: steevil ]</small>

 

[SHOtimer]

where can I get such a filter from K&N, does anybody have a part # i can get off a website, if I do this will it damage anything?

 

[discotech]

Stick with the 5w-30, IMO. That's what I use. Do a search if you want to get hundreds more opinions on oil.

 

[shojuan]

In our climate 10/30 is just fine. It doesn't get that cold in winter time. In general the lower the point spread between the numbers, the better because less plastic oil thickeners are used. 10/30 has a 20 point spread compared to 25 for 5/30 and 30 for 10/40 and 20/50. This is the reason that Castrol in their new TV ads has fine print that reads "Applies only to 5W/30 and 10W/30 weights" when they are making their claims about it providing the best protection.

As for getting the K&N, Kragen's sells K&N products, they have a catalog you can look in if somebody here doesn't get you a part number first. They should be able to order it for you. Jamie at the South Main Kragens is a real cutie and a lot more helpful than most of the Salinas Kragen employees.

Hope that helps!

Rick

 

[SHOtimer]

I thought about goin down to kragen and look at their catalog prolly find it their. Yeah I'm good friends with Jamie she is rather a cutie, I'm friends with all of them cuz of my Ol '68 F-250 I used to have, was in their practically a daily basis. thanx for ur help

 

[sdpatt]

Those guys at Ford were idiots. The SHO engine has two crankcase breather lines that always keep the crankcase at negative pressure unless you are using a supercharger. You aren't are you? Only 130,000 miles is barely broken in during the lifetime of a well maintainded SHO engine. They musy have asumed that the rings were shot and allowing a gret deal of exhaust blow-by into the crankcase. Are you seeing much blue smoke out of the exhaust? If not, you rings are probably like may of ours - still very tight.

I'm sorry that you went through Ford for these seal replacements. The front main seal is a $8 part and is usually replaced during a timing belt change with minor extra effort. The oil pan seal and RTV set is $17, and, as you found out, mostly the cost of the labor to install it. The rear main seal is usually only dealt with during a clutch replacement for a minor extra charge. You can get a new clutch, throwout bearing and rear main seal for quite a bit less than the $950 they quoted you for the seal alone. Crooks.

You can get the K&N 33-240 filter at AutoZone for $46.99 and just do it. Your engine will love you for it.

 

[shojuan]

Yeah, those prices are crooked. For the $700 they should have replaced the timing belt, accessory belts, CPS and water pump while they were in there. There's no justification for them not at least replacing the timing belt and accessory belts. Not warranting the work is BS. That $950 quote should include a new clutch.

You might want to call the Monterey County District Attorney's Consumer Fraud unit and have them mail you a complaint form. Then make your case. I know dealers consider their service depts. to be big profit centers. Unfairly taking money from college students and not giving a fair value of service in return isn't right.

I asked my wife to ask the other attorney's at work if they have ever successfully prosecuted a dealer service department for similar unfair treatment. Even if they haven't, this should not stop you from filing a complaint. That's what consumer fraud is there for. Lucky for you you live in a county that has one. San Benito county here is too backwoods to have a consumer fraud unit.

Rick

 

[shojuan]

OK, my wife said it's mostly a case of buyer beware. You need to shop around for service. Better yet, get a helms manual and start working on it yourself. If the dealer misrepresented the price at all then that's a different matter. You can still complain. There is also a California Board of Automotive Repairs. They should have a website with information that might help you out. They might keep track of complaints too.

You should get in contact with Efren, slosho89. He might be able to replace that rear main seal for a reasonable fee. He has an engine hoist at his parent's house I believe. He's swapped a 3.2 liter engine into his MTX, so he's had his car apart to where that rear main seal is accessible. Maybe he'll chime in here and offer his help.

Rick

 

[SHOZ123]

steevil
[QB]a small start would be to install a crank-case breather.

It functions in much the same way a PCV valve does but does not suck the oil vapors back inot the manifold but merely vents it into the engine bay.

This will go a long way to prolonging oil seals.

A crankcase breather will not allow the crank-case to pressure up.

K&N sells one that essentially screws on in place of your oil fill cap. A breather needs to be filtered as the crank-case will create a bit of a vacumn when cold.

Please be aware that a crank-case breather is not emissions legal but is easy enough to remove when you need to do any emissions testing.

QB]

Normally the crankcase is under a slight vacuum when running. There is never a pressure build up with the vacuum. If you disconnect the PCV line from the TB you will build up pressure due to the gasses going past the rings, this is called blowby gas.

What you should do is install a baffeled closed tank in the line from the oil seperator to the TB. This will allow the gunk to drop out and or condense in the tank instead of the intake track.

If you want to vent to the atmosphere then a pump should be used. In fact putting 15" on vacuum on the crankcase will give you ~5 hp depending on rpm due to the better seal the rings make.

 

[Dave Ladely]

I use Castrol 10-30 with the Amsoil dual remote filter set up mounted in front of the radiator; works great, much better filtration, adds a couple quarts to the capacity. I use K&N full flow and the amsoil bypass filter, the largest on I could fit. Also NO more oil dripping on starter during oil changes!
Money well spent!

 

[SHOtimer]

Thank you everybody! I thought about doing it myself, but was afraid I would screw something up, well enough will Ford, now I'm disgusted. From now I on I service my SHO! Scott, I assume the K&N part number is the breather valve that goes into the oil fill hole? thanx again for the help
Doug

 

[billyshoe]

The oiling system is designed to pump 5\30 oil thru metered orfices at at normal operating pressures, If the pressure is raised from using a heavier weight oil it will pump at less volume. So.... do you want more oil or less oil Oh yah, I forgot to mention the oil IS COOLING the engine.

<small>[ September 11, 2002, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: billyshoe ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

SHOtimer:
Scott, I assume the K&N part number is the breather valve that goes into the oil fill hole? thanx again for the help
Doug

The oiling system is designed to pump 5\30 oil thru metered orfices at at normal operating pressures, If the pressure is raised from using a heavier weight oil it will pump at less volume. So.... do you want more oil or less oil?

That was the panel K&N filter part number for your air filter as a direct replacement for the existing air filter. Sorry about the confusion. I recommend that you do not install an externally vented breather on your engine due to what the Ford technician incorrectly stated about high crankcase pressure. Simply, he was wrong.

The oil pump in the SHO engine, and most internal combustion engines, is a positive displacement pump (PDP) that will pump a given volume of oil for each revolution of the engine crankshaft. It doesn't really care what the viscosity of the pumped fluid is, it will always pump the same volume per revolution. The higher pressure/lower volume relationship holds for cetrifugal pump designs, not PDPs.

Heavier weight oil? Do you mean the base stock? Because at operating temperatures, the 5W-30 and 10W-30 should both be performing as 30W oils. The benefit to the lower base weight oil is easier starting in cold (very cold) temperatures. The Ford users manual for the SHO states that the 10W-30 is good down to 0F (as in zero degrees Fahrenheit).

I don't believe that there are any metering orifices in the SHO's oil path. The system pressure is created and maintained by the clearances in the many bearings that the oil is forced into. It is when these clearances increase due to excessive wear that the oil pressure light illuminates due to low pressure in the system.

If there were a metering orifice downstream of the pump's output, it would just make the pump work harder and the pressure upstream of the orifice be quite high because, please remember, the pump is a positive displacement pump. It will always pump the same volume of any fluid per each revolution of the engine's crankshaft. I hope this clears up a few things.

 

[billyshoe]

Every oil passage, bearing clearance, and not to forget the piston skirt oil shooters, chain tentioners,ECT,ect.. all meter oil thru the system at a specific flow rate. Tell the engineer who's had college on it. Not me! The volume will be lower during cold startups

 

[shojuan]

The volume will be the same. The pressure will be higher because it will take more force to move the same volume of thicker oil through the system. This is consistant with what you will notice if you have an actual oil pressure gauge installed.

Scott is absolutely correct about the 5W/30 versus 10W/30. Both should be behaving as a 30wt during normal operating temperatures. 10W/30 gives the added benefit of having less plastic thickeners used to get the heated oil up to a 30wt. 5W/30 is just a compromise to insure that oil pumps in subzero temperatures. That's -18C for our friends north of the border, or anywhere else besides the USA for that matter.

Rick

 

[billyshoe]

A pressure guage reads higher psi cold, A flow meter will indicate less GPM.