Normal Transmission Behavior??
- Thread starter rcryniak
- Start date
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rcryniak
Active Member
I'd guess there's more to it than a labeling change, they state: "Max ATF is NOT recommended for the following applications: Allison TES-389, DEXRON® VI, Ford Type F and MERCON® SP & LV" ...I don't think they'd put a warning if it were just a matter of labeling, unless I'm missing something.
It's murky waters you get into with this stuff, not unlike with engine oil specs. Manufacturers can and do stop licensing the older spec of a fluid as newer specs are released. So you get "recommended for ..." vs "approved for ..." labeling on aftermarket products. The AM manufacturer may voluntarily "cease and desist" when they don't feel comfortable supporting their products in certain applications anymore. Or the OEM manufacturer has directly told them to stop. IDK what the case here is.
rcryniak
Active Member
Gotcha! That's understandable... but I figure at this point I'll stick with the recommendation of the dealership on this flush.
bpd1151
Lurking Around
I've never once used RP for the Trans fluid.
I have used RP everywhere else though.
When it comes to the Trans fluid, I have religiously used the officially licensed Motorcraft fluid explicity. Each & every time.
Sorry I didn't see this post earlier.
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rcryniak
Active Member
By "officially licensed Motocraft fluid", do you mean only Ford/Motocraft Mercon LV, or other party fluid that bears the Mercon LV designation (presumably under license) such as Valvoline MaxLife? If Ford/Motocraft product only, why not a third party fluid in this case?
bpd1151
Lurking Around
ONLY Ford Motorcraft.
I've heard from many mechanics over the years, for reasons never explained, nor did I ask, when it comes to Ford transmissions, use only the Motorcraft fluid. Period. Apparently they're finicky.
I have on occasion, asked my current mechanic about other product offerings, knowing changes have occurred, and he vehemently reiterated what others in his trade told me before.... stick with the Motorcraft.
So I have never once veered away from using it during my changes.
Knock on wood, seems to have been accurate thus far.... almost 74k worth of daily driven use, track abuse, in conjunction with the amount of power I am pushing through it..... she's held solid thus far without so much as a blip.
If that isn't telling, idk what else would be.
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I've heard from many mechanics over the years, for reasons never explained, nor did I ask, when it comes to Ford transmissions, use only the Motorcraft fluid. Period. Apparently they're finicky.
I have on occasion, asked my current mechanic about other product offerings, knowing changes have occurred, and he vehemently reiterated what others in his trade told me before.... stick with the Motorcraft.
So I have never once veered away from using it during my changes.
Knock on wood, seems to have been accurate thus far.... almost 74k worth of daily driven use, track abuse, in conjunction with the amount of power I am pushing through it..... she's held solid thus far without so much as a blip.
If that isn't telling, idk what else would be.
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rcryniak
Active Member
It's very telling actually. But now I'm wondering why my own dealership swears by their Valvoline product that's Mercon LV "licensed". They would have done my last change with it... Apparently, they don't even carry the official Ford stuff. I already made the appointment ugh... well, need my inspection done as well, it's due April... but ugh. Is this something I can do myself just as easily (remember me=noob lol)? I see a case of Mercon LV 12QT on Amazon for $80. So I'd save 50% on the change as well.
bpd1151
Lurking Around
Absolutely you can do it yourself.
****, I'd argue it's as easy as doing an oil change.
In my case, due to my completely custom, dual feed intake setup, I don't need to remove anything in the engine bay, in order to access the tranny fill cap.
Those of you still running stock intake, or some other competing aftermarket cai, may or may not, have to remove portions of it, just to access the fill cap.
For me, it's a simple removing one bolt from the bottom of the Trans pan, dropping the fluid, & refilling. Done.
15min & the cost of the fluid itself, is all I need to git 'er done.
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****, I'd argue it's as easy as doing an oil change.
In my case, due to my completely custom, dual feed intake setup, I don't need to remove anything in the engine bay, in order to access the tranny fill cap.
Those of you still running stock intake, or some other competing aftermarket cai, may or may not, have to remove portions of it, just to access the fill cap.
For me, it's a simple removing one bolt from the bottom of the Trans pan, dropping the fluid, & refilling. Done.
15min & the cost of the fluid itself, is all I need to git 'er done.
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rcryniak
Active Member
Cool! So you don't actually flush everything out? Doesn't some of it stay in the Torque Converter without a full flush? Just drain and fill??
bpd1151
Lurking Around
I perform the drain twice, within short intervals. Say a 2 week spread of driving. Regardless of mileage accrued.
When you drain, you will get between 5 to 5.5qts out each time. The total capacity of the system is 11, or just over 11qts.
I have drained it once, then drove around for two weeks, then drained it a 2nd time.
Seems to have worked thus far pretty well. And given the cost of the fluid, especially being able to price compete online, it's really not a waste in my opinion, even though others, in other communities, have claimed it is.
I'd rather stave off tranny issues in their entirety, for the cost of simple, routine, fluid changes. Just saying.
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When you drain, you will get between 5 to 5.5qts out each time. The total capacity of the system is 11, or just over 11qts.
I have drained it once, then drove around for two weeks, then drained it a 2nd time.
Seems to have worked thus far pretty well. And given the cost of the fluid, especially being able to price compete online, it's really not a waste in my opinion, even though others, in other communities, have claimed it is.
I'd rather stave off tranny issues in their entirety, for the cost of simple, routine, fluid changes. Just saying.
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mmh64
Active Member
I am somewhat new, with this vehicle anyway, and this is totally diy for a noob. I did this when I purchased the vehicle 20000 miles ago and plan on doing it again soon. I also stuck with motorcraft because I'm not fond of mixing fluids. I don't know if mixing is bad or good. I would think Valvoline from dealer would be fine. Fluid choice is a very debatable topic. I just go with my gut feeling and live with it. A lot of confusing info out there. Anyway I do three drain and refill. A little more than 5 quarts each time. I do one drain and refill drive 20-30 minutes and repeat the process two more times. Not all, but a majority of the fluid is exchanged.
rcryniak
Active Member
Agree 100%. The question then is, where is the best place to buy this stuff? At $80 for a 12 pack on Amazon, that's cheaper than the dealer option... however, I can get Valvoline for even cheaper at Walmart, $17/gallon!! So, what do you think of maybe using inexpensive Valvoline for the "flush" part, and finalize it with a fill of Mercon LV? One process that I thought looked interesting (you tell me what you think, looks like a really good, proper flush) is this howto video. Would love to hear thoughts on this one.
(I should clarify that between my (very) occasional hard shifts at WOT and the rev hang issues relating to the OP, I really want to get all the old fluid out of this car. Every drop if I can.)
On a percentage basis, the drain & fill will leave 13% of the original fluid behind (1 D/F is 1/2 left, 2 D/F is 1/2 times 1/2 or 1/4, 3 D/F is 1/4 times 1/2 remaining old fluid), pretty good for a non-flush method, and simpler (no touching hoses/clamps of any kind). Many use this technique and are quite happy with it.
Try the Motorcraft first, at least 2 D/Fs like bpd does, then see if further action needs to be taken.
Try the Motorcraft first, at least 2 D/Fs like bpd does, then see if further action needs to be taken.
bpd1151
Lurking Around
The price point you cite on amazon, seems on par with what I pay for at my local Dealer.
With a discount that's extended to me, I typically pay around $7 p/qt at the Dealer.
I typically embrace the "you get what you pay for" mantra.
Now that's not to say the Valvoline products aren't good, but as I've stated previously, for some weird reason, everyone I've heard from over the years, specifically regarding Ford's Transmission's, are to be sure to use the Motorcraft fluids explicitly.
Take it for what it's worth, and make your own decisions based on what you feel is best for your circumstances.
But my record thus far is unblemished when it comes to longevity of all my factory parts. Still on original trans, ptu, rear diff, etc.
I must be doing something right.
With a discount that's extended to me, I typically pay around $7 p/qt at the Dealer.
I typically embrace the "you get what you pay for" mantra.
Now that's not to say the Valvoline products aren't good, but as I've stated previously, for some weird reason, everyone I've heard from over the years, specifically regarding Ford's Transmission's, are to be sure to use the Motorcraft fluids explicitly.
Take it for what it's worth, and make your own decisions based on what you feel is best for your circumstances.
But my record thus far is unblemished when it comes to longevity of all my factory parts. Still on original trans, ptu, rear diff, etc.
I must be doing something right.
rcryniak
Active Member
I tend to agree, especially since you're pushing more power than anyone else, so everything's taking more impact and surviving well it would seem. So your experience, expertise, as well as many others like SHOdded, SHOonUup, BamSHO, numerous others here that deserve mentioned as well, but really anyone that knows how to use a wrench haha, is invaluable to me.
I guess I wasn't super clear what I was asking - I wasn't asking about leaving any Valvoline in there as a final trans fluid, but to use it temporarily as the "pusher" in order to not waste the slightly more expensive Motorcraft fluid. (Since a flush presumably uses more considerably more fluid, guessing 2-3x the capacity?) e.g. Use the Valvoline to initially flush out the old tranny oil then continue the flush with the Motorcraft fluid. Goal=have Motorcraft Mercon LV in there when it's done, mostly having wasted only the "cheaper stuff", taking advantage of the fact that it's clean and "compatible" to use as the start of the flush, and also taking advantage of it's cheaper price.
That said, if you don't think it's worth the savings to use as a temporary fluid for a flush, then I'll trust your guys' judgment and stick with the Motorcraft stuff alone.
So what do you guys think of that YouTube video I posted for the DIY flush? Did you watch it? It looks pretty complete to me. The only thing I was questioning on it (being a noob) was pushing air through the Transmission Cooler to push out the oil stuck there into the Transmission, does that mean I'd get air into the transmission doing that?? Is that OK? If not, I could get a pressurized fluid dispenser and use that to displace what's in the Transmission cooler, like a mini flush before the flush. I don't know, I'm probably over complicating things... however, I'm not the original owner, and apparently, this hasn't seen a drop of real Mercon LV for at last 2 years, so I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by my car.
After having watched that video, another idea hit me... what about using a pressurized fluid dispenser (low, LOW pressure for a slow replacement) to inject new fluid at the supply line, so it displaces what's in the transmission cooler, as well as the transmission/torque converter, let it drain out as it gets replaced. Just an idea... seems like it'd get 99% of the stuff out, right?
Best question to ask you... if this were YOUR car, and you weren't certain of what was put in there before, and you wanted to make SURE that you got all the possibly crappy stuff out and replaced with Motocraft Mercon LV, then what would you do?
Anyhow, that original ATF flush video is here:
A flush can use up to 1.5 times the stated fluid capacity of the transmission in question.
Not worth the savings using a "temporary" fluid, although it likely would not cause damage, IMHO. Give the Motorcraft fluid a chance first.
If you want to follow the idea of the YouTube video, and are confident you will get the steps right and not allow air into the system, go for it. Measure twice, cut once, always.
If uncertain of what was in the transmission, I would get a flush done with Motorcraft LV fluid. Maybe twice (after a couple of months interval) depending on if there were existing problems in the first place. If problems still remained after a second flush that I couldn't live with then a) trade the car, b) fix under warranty, or c) try the BG Universal/Full Synthetic ATF or the Amsoil Signature ATF, in no particular order. Review a sample of the old fluid each time you D/F or flush to determine condition (color, smell, particulates, etc). This is particularly important as there is no serviceable filter in these transmissions, only a "permanent" screen.
EDIT: If only this guy were local 2 u!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/5496939574.html
Not worth the savings using a "temporary" fluid, although it likely would not cause damage, IMHO. Give the Motorcraft fluid a chance first.
If you want to follow the idea of the YouTube video, and are confident you will get the steps right and not allow air into the system, go for it. Measure twice, cut once, always.
If uncertain of what was in the transmission, I would get a flush done with Motorcraft LV fluid. Maybe twice (after a couple of months interval) depending on if there were existing problems in the first place. If problems still remained after a second flush that I couldn't live with then a) trade the car, b) fix under warranty, or c) try the BG Universal/Full Synthetic ATF or the Amsoil Signature ATF, in no particular order. Review a sample of the old fluid each time you D/F or flush to determine condition (color, smell, particulates, etc). This is particularly important as there is no serviceable filter in these transmissions, only a "permanent" screen.
EDIT: If only this guy were local 2 u!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/5496939574.html
Last edited:
Hebes10
SHO Member
I paid $5.45 per qt of Mercon LV at my local ford dealer. It doesn't hurt to call your local parts department and ask. Most of the time I can find Motorcraft products at my local ford dealership much cheaper than Amazon. I recently bought a gallon of specialty green coolant for $11 less than amazon!
Valvoline PDS just for informational sake:
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf
Castrol Transmax Full Synthetic ATF:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...CCF193E80257BA5006EB93F/$File/BPXE-99LBRT.pdf
Note, Castrol actually has the Mercon LV license. MaxLife ATF is not a OEM licensed product (no judgement on quality).
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf
Castrol Transmax Full Synthetic ATF:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...CCF193E80257BA5006EB93F/$File/BPXE-99LBRT.pdf
Note, Castrol actually has the Mercon LV license. MaxLife ATF is not a OEM licensed product (no judgement on quality).
