No Start....please help!

[Electricat]

No Start....please help! *UPDATED, Problem Solved!*

I just completed a valve gapping job, cleaning out my timing chain tensioners, and cleaning out the plug wells a bit. I put everything back together, and the car cranks fine, but refuses to start or even cough. I have fuel pressure at the rail, I have spark to the plugs, and no KOEO codes. I just don't understand what the problem could be!! I have tried different throttle positions, cleaning connectors, and even disassembled the top again to check that I reinstalled the timing chain tensioner setup correctly. And still nothing works....I don't know what to try next. PLEASE HELP!!!!

 

[Minnesho]

Does the tach move? trace every step you did when you disassembled, sounds like you left something unplugged. is the DIS plugged in? CPS connector is also by the DIS on the crossover tube.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Im not sure if its left undone if you will get spark or not, but you might want to check the ground strap on the back of the passenger side intake support.

Did you do the timing belt? Did you double check that it was installed correctly?

 

[Electricat]

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

Tach does move when cranking. DIS is plugged in.

I didn't mess with the timing belt at all. I will check on that ground strap!

A thought crossed my mind last night....I definately have spark at the plugs, and fuel at the rail...but is it possible the injectors aren't firing?? Just thinking fuel at the rail doesn't necessarily guarantee fuel in the cylinders.

 

[SHOZ123]

This happened to me once after an intake removal and work on the motor. Does the motor seem like it is spinning a bit faster?

If so it may be flooded and washed all the oil out of the cylinders. This leaves you with little compression. Try flooring the car when cranking. It may take a couple of 30 second cranks.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

Tach does move when cranking. DIS is plugged in.

I didn't mess with the timing belt at all. I will check on that ground strap!

A thought crossed my mind last night....I definately have spark at the plugs, and fuel at the rail...but is it possible the injectors aren't firing?? Just thinking fuel at the rail doesn't necessarily guarantee fuel in the cylinders.

Pull a front plug and crank it, see if any fuel is comming out. Just dont leave the spark plug attached to the wire!

I would definatly check the ground strap.

 

[Electricat]

Alright guys....I just got home, and went and tried the stuff you posted. (My favorite thing after an exhausting 18 day....working on a POS car )

At this point: I definately have fire to the plugs, verified by checking wires with an extra plug. I pulled a plug and cranked, and had gas spraying out the plug hole, so I have fuel into the cylinders. I also tried the cranking with the gas pedal down, on the theory that it is flooded.

The ground strap in the back is attached at both ends (it is just bolted to the block at the rear, as the car has been missing the rear intake support/bracket things since I got it. Tomorrow I suppose I will detach and clean those connections.

I'm still getting nothing! I just don't understand how you can have fire and fuel into a cylinder, but no attempt at even rough running?!?

 

[projectSHO89]

I'd run a dry/wet compression check next.

Pull the plugs, check the compression on each cyclinder, then squirt a teaspoon or two of oil into each cylinder and repeat.

The pressures should be close for each time. However, if you did wash down the cylinder walls as Paul suggested, you'll get significantly higher readings on the wet test. You'll also fix the problem if this is the reason it isn't firing.

Steve

 

[Rockledge]

Just thinking fuel at the rail doesn't necessarily guarantee fuel in the cylinders.

When I had problems with my SHO's fuel pump circuit, I got a decent spray at the rail, but nonetheless the car wouldn't start.

You can manually run the pump by grounding the FP pin on the EEC Test Connector:

When I did this, my SHO started right up. That's how I confirmed it was a fuel problem.

 

[Electricat]

Alright guys, I did a compression check....all cylinders were in the 150 range, so I added a bit of oil, which brought them up near 200. When I tried to fire it off, it cranked just a bit, then I got a MASSIVE backfire through the intake, then nothing after that, just cranking. I guess there was some cleaner sitting in the intake or something?

I also tried the fuel pump grounding test that was mentioned, this also didn't make a difference.

I don't know where to go next....this is getting really frustrating.

 

[SHOZ123]

Crank the car over for 4 seconds. Take out a plug, is it wet and smell like gas?

If it does then take said spark plug, ground it on the intake, connect the spark plug wire then crank. Is the spark bright and make a snapping noise?

 

[Electricat]

Crank the car over for 4 seconds. Take out a plug, is it wet and smell like gas?

If it does then take said spark plug, ground it on the intake, connect the spark plug wire then crank. Is the spark bright and make a snapping noise?

Already tried that....that is how I first determined that I did have fuel and spark.

 

[smak]

what did you do to clean up the pkug wells? did you clean the wire ends as well at all?

after getting my plugs/wires wet on my yamaha motorcycle i had a heck of a time getting it started again although i was getting fuel and spark, the spark was too weak to ignite.

just took a pal and alot of push starting to get it going again.

try putting a good dielectrib grease in every wire boot and maybe try spraying a bit of quick start into each cylender before cranking.

how long have you tried cranking ata time (ever go over 6-7 seconds?)

 

[Howdy_Doody]

Sure you got the plug wires in the right firing order?? I hear there is a mistake in one of the published books...

 

[Electricat]

Alright guys, I'm at the end of my rope here. I've tried everything suggested, plus anything else I could think of.

At this point I have fuel in the cylinders (w/ and w/o fuel pump jumper teset), spark to all plugs, and compression at around 200lbs. in all cylinders. I have tried long cranks w/ gas pedal in all positions. I swapped the cam sensor and the ICRM for spare units I had. Firing order is correct. No DTC's, and no blown fuses. I have checked all grounds and connectors that I can find.

I just don't see how this thing can NOT run!?! The only thing I can think of at this point is that the computer somehow got fried? I may be able to get another D4U1 from one of the JY cars near me, so I'm thinking of trying that, as I am at a loss for other ideas.

 

[Electricat]

Alright....today I tried a new set of plugs, and still the same deal.....good crank, but no attempt at starting.

I was unable to find a D4U1 at the JY.

Is there some sort of ground or something that I am missing here? I don't understand this. And if the Forum folks don't have an answer, I'm awful skeptical of turning a mechanic loose on it.

 

[Rockledge]

If it's an ignition problem, this could help:

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=61525

 

[RAYJAY]

Did you remove the dis at all ??? And as for the ground on the back of the motor, make shure its on the intake not the head part of the motor ( rubber conectors and gaskets do not make a good ground ..lol) i would even try to run a ground from the neg termal to the bolts on the dis (making shure its getting a good ground .





also when you cleaned out the timing chain tensioners you didn't lose timing at did you ????

also the wiring harness by the ground wire rear of the motor make shure there all pluged in and the wires look ok back there

Jeff

 

[SHOZ123]

Check at the TPS connector to make sure there is 5V on one of the wires when the key is in run.

 

[Electricat]

PROBLEM SOLVED, FINALLY!!!

I haven't had much time to mess with the car over the last couple weeks, due to a death in the family, and school+work making me have a 75hr. week. But the other day, I went and talked to the local mechanic who helped me identify my emissions test failure (bad cats). He wasn't too hot on working on the mysterious SHO engine, especially after I had already worked on it myself. He asked me about the basics: fuel, spark, and compression...which I had all of. But he also asked "Do you have the compression at the right time?".

Hrmm.......this got me thinking, and I went and pulled the upper timing cover...and found that the marks didn't line up! Somewhere in all the cranking the engine and cams around, I managed to slip the timing belt several teeth out on the crank gear. Today I finally had time to work on it, and tore it down and reset the timing belt....hooked up the battery, hit the key, and it fired instantly! I still have to reinstall the timing covers & acessory drives, but the problem is solved!!

HUGE THANKS to everyone who provided advice in this thread!! You guys are great! As soon as I sell some of the parts I have here, SHOForum will be getting a gratuity donation.