No go on the TURBO!! Help please.

[Toolman]

As some of you know, my attempts to take the new and improved turbo SHO to the Indy convention were foiled. The day I was supposed to leave, I got it all back together but could not start it. I racked my brains for a few hours, tried all sorts of remedies, but none worked. Here are the symptoms. Here are the symptoms:

When I turn the ignition on, I hear no whine from the fuel pump. It simply is not running (or at very low speed, because it did start and run for about 10 seconds one time, the other time it started but I shut it off).

Also, my starter would only engage if I shorted across the solenoid.

I ran codes, and this is all I recieved - 95 (when I had the GEN I computer in it), and 542 (when I had the GEN II computer in it). They are the same code though, fuel pump circuit always open, or bad ground, something of that nature.

I checked the inertia switch, even made a jumper for it, no go. Swapped ICRM's, swapped computers, swapped solenoids (but will try again with a known working one in a bit), cleaned battery terminals, connections, etc etc, no go.

I see no reason why fuel pump would be bad. It started fine prior to it sitting for so long. But, once after the winter I tried to start it and it would only crank for a long time. So there is a chance I need to swap in a new pump, but I want to check all other alternatives first. Plus, the starter is not engaging without shorting across the solenoid, so my problem is not isolated to the pump.

Any other ideas gentelman? I have not touched the thing since I got back, but before I start breaking into it again I thought I would see if you all had some recommendations. I know it is something simple, probably staring me right in the face, but I just can not put a finger on it.

TIA.

 

[Ishodu]

Have you tried grounding the pin on the ECC test port to see if the pump will run? Have you tested to see if you indeed get 12v power to the solenoid when the key is in the start position?

 

[Toolman]

Yes, nothing. After doing it for a few times, I did get a small bit of pressure built up, just enough for some fuel to flow out of the schraeder on the rail. But even if the pump is gone (no big deal, I have a new 190lph in my SHO room), that does not explain the starter situation.

 

[Toolman]

I did get 12v at the solenoid, but only 4.5 at the little wire with the elbow. I am going to swap out with a known good solenoid right now (the other one I used could have been a bad one).

 

[Ishodu]

Hopefully the two issues will be unrelated. You have done a major amount of work there. Are you using a gen 1 or 2 starter? Maybe you could go right to the fuel pump wires and apply power there and see if it runs. If not I would say that your pump is gone.

 

[Mike Kelly]

fuselink?

Maybe a fuse link at the fenderwell area? Just a wild guess. I know very little
about electrical problems. Mike

 

[Toolman]

Same here. I have no idea about fusible links, etc. If it was a fuse though, I would think I would get nothing to come out of my schraeder valve, and the car did run for time (about 10-12 seconds before sputtering and dying). It is almost as if the pump, and the starter are not getting enough juice to do theri jobs.

I hate this electrical crap.

 

[SuperG]

Dumb question (but certainly can apply to me)...is there gas in the tank?

There. That's all I know abour cars...

 

[Ishodu]

I am looking at the wire diagrams now for ya. This is if its a 91 starter. When the key is put to the start position there should be 12v applied to the red/light blue wire. This will close the solenoid and fire the starter. If that voltage is present and the solenoid does not click and it will turn over when you cross the post the solenoid is not working correctly.

 

[TYSHO]

Is the ICRM receiving power? Do the relays click in the ICRM box when the ignition is turned to the run position?

Possibly an ignition switch on it's last leg, giving out low voltage.

 

[SHO#7]

I would go directly to the source and probe the wires at the fuel pump. Check to see if they have any power. You can have a friend continue to "prime" the pump by turning the key on and off. If you have power and no pumping, there you go.

I would also treat the bad solenoid as such. I do not see anywhere that you will have the two related other than the ignition switch, but when you grounded the EEC for the pump to trigger. You would have had fuel. IMHO I think you have two unrelated situations.

Mike

 

[Toolman]

I am going to replace the ignition switch too. I put in a known good solenoid (starter relay) and same thing. I swapped out the fusible link that goes from the positive cable to the wiring harness, no difference (worked fine in other car). I am going to run codes again and see what it says.

So, I probably could use a new fuel pump anyway, and I want to practice making the fuel pump door in the seat floor. ANyone know where those instructions are?

After the fuel pump and ingnition switch replacement, if it still does not work, what could be the problem? Are there any fuses that could cause this?

 

[shomesomesho]

I got the same code on my '91 a while back. Turned out the battery was dead. Everything back to normal with a new battery. What is your voltage across the terminals.

 

[SHO#7]

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/fueldoor/fueldoor.htm

That will help you with the fuel door. However, I had my rusty 91 tank down in about 25 minutes. I would not cut my car up if I planed on racing it.

 

[MYSHO1]

"You should have 12V at that pig tail wire, and make sure that your computer is turning on"

What my father said.

 

[Toolman]

UPDATE

The battery is good, 12+v.


I am getting no volts at the wires leading to my inertia switch. I checked it on my other car and I was getting 6v. So my question is, does the fuel pump have to recieve power prior to the inertia switch receiving power? I do not have time today, but I plan on replacing the fuel pump later. Before I do I will check all voltages at wires leading to it, and check the fuel pump itself. Still, I have no idea why car will not crank. AAAAARRRRRGGHHH!!!!

 

[TYSHO]

So my question is, does the fuel pump have to recieve power prior to the inertia switch receiving power?

Edit: Misread your question, I had read it to be ICRM-to-Inertia switch-to-fuel pump.

From my understanding, yes. <---no

You need to check if power is going or coming out of the ICRM. If there's no power to the ICRM or Starter Soleniod, I'd look into the ignition switch as that sends all of the signals.

 

[Toolman]

From my understanding, yes.

You need to check if power is going or coming out of the ICRM. If there's no power to the ICRM or Starter Soleniod,

Okay, how?

I'd look into the ignition switch as that sends all of the signals.

I will be replacing that shortly (need to anyway since my key is broken off inside).

 

[TYSHO]

When you turn the key to the "on" position, you should hear the soleniods in the ICRM clicking, that's an idication if it is receiving power or not. IIRC, the ICRM also has a relay for the PCM/ECU.

The ignition switch is not the ignition lock, which the key inserts in. You can pick one up at AutoZone for $15.99, Wells LS615. These switches are not all that common to go out, but it can happen.

Does your dash lights light up with the key turned to the "on" position, like the "check engine" light?


Edit: I was having the same exact symtoms you are having, but with my 93. I disconnected the computer harness to check the condition and when I bolted it back up, the problem has yet to resurface. You might want to try that.

 

[Toolman]

When you turn the key to the "on" position, you should hear the soleniods in the ICRM clicking, that's an idication if it is receiving power or not. IIRC, the ICRM also has a relay for the PCM/ECU.

Yes, all the normal clicking sounds, the KOEO test goes perfectly, just returns with the 542 code.

The ignition switch is not the ignition lock, which the key inserts in. You can pick one up at AutoZone for $15.99, Wells LS615. These switches are not all that common to go out, but it can happen.

I will be getting an ignition switch tonight.

Does your dash lights light up with the key turned to the "on" position, like the "check engine" light?

Yes.

Edit: I was having the same exact symtoms you are having, but with my 93. I disconnected the computer harness to check the condition and when I bolted it back up, the problem has yet to resurface. You might want to try that.

Have swapped computers a few times. I might try putting a different computer, as there is a minute chance both computers I tried were bad.

That is all for today though. Got to work on a customers car. Just hope he has no electrical problems! Valve lashes, Quaife installs, trans rebuilds, rod bearings, heck, entire turbo build up and installs, send all those my way, but dang I hate this electrical stuff!