New piston rings...

[SHOtimer]

I am looking for a new set of rings for my 3.2. RCM offers a set of Hastings 'premium' rings where the top compression rings are chrome faced. They also off a set of 'Total seal gapless performance rings'. What would be the difference between the standard set and these? What would the advantage/disadvantage to these gapless rings?

Thanx, Doug

 

[Lorenr]

Rings

Before you change ring designs be sure that any new rings that you purchase are desined for YOUR pistons and not a set of specialty pistons.

Generally speaking:

Stock rings are generally made of cast iron alloy and if the BORES ARE ROUND when they are installed, work well to seal the motor. They generally leak about 3+% when in very good condition.

Chrome rings are designed for dirty environments such as off road racing where an air cleaner is not always doing its job. They require a special coarse bore finish to seat properly because the chrome face is so hard. They leak generally 4+% but can go through **** and still seal with 5% leakage.

Single Moly and Double Moly rings (both top and second rings are moly faced) are extremely durable in most environments. These rings work well to seal a motor, particularly if they are hand fitted. They will leak about 3% also.

Gapless rings are the cats *** and are hard to beat. They seal and last. I've even heard that when tested they will sometimes leak as little as 1% and that is a big deal.

 

[SHOtimer]

Before you change ring designs be sure that any new rings that you purchase are desined for YOUR pistons and not a set of specialty pistons.

Generally speaking:

Stock rings are generally made of cast iron alloy and if the BORES ARE ROUND when they are installed, work well to seal the motor. They generally leak about 3+% when in very good condition.

Chrome rings are designed for dirty environments such as off road racing where an air cleaner is not always doing its job. They require a special coarse bore finish to seat properly because the chrome face is so hard. They leak generally 4+% but can go through **** and still seal with 5% leakage.

Single Moly and Double Moly rings (both top and second rings are moly faced) are extremely durable in most environments. These rings work well to seal a motor, particularly if they are hand fitted. They will leak about 3% also.

Gapless rings are the cats *** and are hard to beat. They seal and last. I've even heard that when tested they will sometimes leak as little as 1% and that is a big deal.

Thank you for your knowledgeable, and informative response.

Ok to first clarify what is going on with this motor. This is a stock 3.2 that was/is in good condition that I am rebuilding. I am using the stock pistons, the machine shop is going to freshen up the cylinder walls, he said the walls looked great, but would give them a once over to make sure they are good and clean. The motor is getting the crank polished, all new bearings and freeze plugs....

This motor is not going to see boost or Nitrous, it is going to be strictly street driven (aggressively..yes), but not heavily modded or the such.
Basicaly, I want to have this motor last me a long time as a daily driver.

Would the chrome faced rings be a bad move on a motor such as this? RCM doesn't list any Moly rings, but I'm sure could get a hold of them.

From doing a search, and from what you have just said the Gapless rings are apparently a nice set of rings. However, the website for them and the applications that I saw people on the board using them for was for boosted SHOs, and motors that are heavily raced. Would these be a good idea for a street car that wants a solid motor for a long time? Are they designed to be street driven and perform for many miles or just to be raced?

Thanx, Doug

 

[Lorenr]

New Rings

It sounds as though the block is in good shape. This, I think is normal with these engines and the shop is probably correct to do nothing more than give it a thorough cleansing. Try to avoid honing unless their is a reason to do it. When you get it back and be fore you re-assemble it be sure to coat the bores and all journals with a good lubricant. ATF, WD 40, light weight engine oil all work well. Do not coat the decks.

All rings work to varying degrees and it does not matter about the final use. That is unless you race the Baja and then you might consider chrome facings.

Gapless are good for almost anything. If they fit your pistons they are a very good choice. Install them out of the box and DO NOT regap them.

I've heard that Hastings rings are a superior product but have not used them. Maybe call and ask before you buy. This line of premium rings would also be a good choice but call first and follow their recommendations about gaps. I'm sure they are about a third of the cost of gapless to.

Round cylinder bores with a good ring seal is a big deal. If you can leak the motor and get 3% or less believe me you can put ENGINE ASSEMBLER on your resume.

The next thing you can do to make serious power is to do a quality valve job. I would look into the type of valve jobs done on four valve Honda's. The things fly so they are probably doing something right. Remember to keep decent size margines and probably three or four angles.

There is power in valve jobs and usually more than in piston rings.

 

[SHOtimer]

I had the valves checked and they were good. I had the machine shop change the valve stem seals though. I spoke to the machine shop again this afternoon and he said that the chrome rings don't always seat very well and he suggested that I go with the single moly rings...which I think I am going to do. He said he was going to hone out the cylinders just a enough to get a fresh surface, something like one thousanth, he said it was not enough to need a larger set of rings or pistons.

I assume moly rings are a good set? He said they should come with the first ring moly and the second cast iron.

I gave them the basic short block and they tore it down and will reassemble it.

Doug

 

[Lorenr]

Rebuild

Sounds good to me. Go with it.

It looks as though you are a student in CA. A simple rebuild will get you home and back and save you money for school. That makes sense.

The other stuff I talked about is a little bit out there, but really works if you have the time and money.

Food for thought. Get your education, it is one of the few thinks that can't be taken from you.

 

[SHOtimer]

Any good sources for moly rings?

Thanx, Doug

 

[SHO green like$]

Moly is some tough stuff.
I used the double moly rings on my LT-1 350 chevy and they didn't want to seat real good for about 2 years.

The single Moly may be the way to go.

I don't know what to think about the gapless, I've never used them, but I like the idea. If anyone has any input about them, I'd like to hear it.

 

[zebrex]

Thank you for your knowledgeable, and informative response.

Ok to first clarify what is going on with this motor. This is a stock 3.2 that was/is in good condition that I am rebuilding. I am using the stock pistons, the machine shop is going to freshen up the cylinder walls, he said the walls looked great, but would give them a once over to make sure they are good and clean. The motor is getting the crank polished, all new bearings and freeze plugs....

This motor is not going to see boost or Nitrous, it is going to be strictly street driven (aggressively..yes), but not heavily modded or the such.
Basicaly, I want to have this motor last me a long time as a daily driver.

Would the chrome faced rings be a bad move on a motor such as this? RCM doesn't list any Moly rings, but I'm sure could get a hold of them.

From doing a search, and from what you have just said the Gapless rings are apparently a nice set of rings. However, the website for them and the applications that I saw people on the board using them for was for boosted SHOs, and motors that are heavily raced. Would these be a good idea for a street car that wants a solid motor for a long time? Are they designed to be street driven and perform for many miles or just to be raced?

Thanx, Doug

just being nosey, what do you expect this to cost. I am not having any trouble with my engine but the milage is high and I have considered doing the same as you because im one of those fussy types

 

[SHOtimer]

just being nosey, what do you expect this to cost. I am not having any trouble with my engine but the milage is high and I have considered doing the same as you because im one of those fussy types

Well, to clarify on the piston rings. Their are 3 types available for the 3.2 (well 4). The popular one and the one I choose is the Hastings chrome rings that RCM sells. Their is one set of Ford rings left in the country, but the price is outrageous, lastly the gapless. However, totalseal does not manufacture SHO rings, but can do a custom set, so you are looking at big bucks their also.

You have a PM.

Doug

 

[AREA 91]

I've installed both kinds of rings on different SHO engines. I believe that the gapless are worth the extra $$$ if you want the extra power.

 

[SHOtimer]

I've installed both kinds of rings on different SHO engines. I believe that the gapless are worth the extra $$$ if you want the extra power.

Did the Hastings chrome plated ones perform well?

Doug

 

[AREA 91]

Yup.

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, this thread is several months old... I guess I will give an update in regards to the rings. I went ahead and installed the Hastings rings - the motor has 7k on it now. Runs great, plenty of power and no oil loss what-so-ever. So, so far the rings are great.

Doug