Need help :\ SHO died while driving....

[LongIslandSHO]

Hey all...
So that sputtering/popping turned into a bigger problem... I was driving her earlier tonight, and she died on the highway... I managed to coast off at the exit and onto a side road, but she just won't start - just cranks and cranks and cranks. I had to have her towed back to my house.

What happened? The sputtering/stumbling got worse all of a sudden, then the CEL came on... then I lost all power, and it stalled out.

Once it got towed home, I put my reader on it to pull the codes... but nothing happened! The diagnostics didn't run, and the code reader just stayed in test-mode as if it was doing something, but the car never responded...

Any idea what could have caused this larger issue -and- the sputtering? What would/could cause the code reader to not get any feedback? Did the PCM crap out? I'm guessing that's where the car gets the codes from? Could the PCM going bad have caused the popping/sputtering all along?

I appreciate the help!
Gregg

 

[jayro]

not sure about the pcm. Getting a know good one would probably be a good idea. First two things to check are for spark and fuel. then go from there. Do the rest of the electrical things work.....lights, radio ect?

 

[LongIslandSHO]

not sure about the pcm. Getting a know good one would probably be a good idea. First two things to check are for spark and fuel. then go from there. Do the rest of the electrical things work.....lights, radio ect?

Yes, all the electrical things work... No problem whatsoever there...
How do I go about checking spark and fuel?

My issue is that I rely on the code reader to give me some sort of hint as to where the problem is. Since the car isn't running it's diagnostic when I hit test, I have no idea what the codes are...

So another question - what causes the code reader to not be able to get the car to run its diag test? What does the reader have to communicate with in order to get the codes, run the tests, etc?

 

[220ksho]

I will say this: Most people here don't use a "code reader" to retrieve codes, so you may not get an answer, especially if people aren't familiar with your particular code reader. Use the more common paper clip/counting flashes technique, and start from there. If nothing happens, then your PCM may be suspect.

 

[qiksho]

I will say this: Most people here don't use a "code reader" to retrieve codes, so you may not get an answer, especially if people aren't familiar with your particular code reader. Use the more common paper clip/counting flashes technique, and start from there. If nothing happens, then your PCM may be suspect.

Ditto. Use the paper clip method and then read the codes by watching the flashing CE light. You should be able to find that info by doing a search.

Does your tach move when you crank the car over? If not I would suspect your Crankshaft Position Sensor.

 

[jayro]

THe steps for using a paperclip to pull codes can be found at www.shophenioxproject.com (I may have spelled it wrong). As far as checking for fuel and spark....when you turn the key to the on position do you hear the fue pump prime? You can also depress the schrader on the fuel rails to see if you have pressure. Just cover it with a rag or something. For spark you can pull a plug, attach the plug wire to it and have someone turn it over while you look to see if its sparking. It just has to be grounded. Or you can pull a plug wire and put a screwdriver in the end, grab onto it while someone is cranking it over. If you get a shock/jolt then its getting spark.

Also, there are a number of sho guys up in new york. They may be able to lend a hand.

 

[LongIslandSHO]

Ditto. Use the paper clip method and then read the codes by watching the flashing CE light. You should be able to find that info by doing a search.

Does your tach move when you crank the car over? If not I would suspect your Crankshaft Position Sensor.

I will say this: Most people here don't use a "code reader" to retrieve codes, so you may not get an answer, especially if people aren't familiar with your particular code reader. Use the more common paper clip/counting flashes technique, and start from there. If nothing happens, then your PCM may be suspect.

THe steps for using a paperclip to pull codes can be found at www.shophenioxproject.com (I may have spelled it wrong). As far as checking for fuel and spark....when you turn the key to the on position do you hear the fue pump prime? You can also depress the schrader on the fuel rails to see if you have pressure. Just cover it with a rag or something. For spark you can pull a plug, attach the plug wire to it and have someone turn it over while you look to see if its sparking. It just has to be grounded. Or you can pull a plug wire and put a screwdriver in the end, grab onto it while someone is cranking it over. If you get a shock/jolt then its getting spark.

Also, there are a number of sho guys up in new york. They may be able to lend a hand.

THanks guys. I'll investigate further in the morning. I'm guessing that the fuel pump priming is that humming noise that I hear for about 2 or 3 seconds when ya turn the key to on?

I'm also pretty certain that the tach does move when I crank the car, and since I only replaced the crank sensor and WP a couple thousand miles ago, I don't think it's that... but who knows.. I will check everything you all said tomorrow... including trying to pull the codes with the paper clip method...

Thanks
Gregg:thankyou:

 

[jayro]

Sounds like a spark issue to me.

 

[Racer X]

Clean the pins on the EEC connector and make sure they make good contact. If your code reader still cannot recover the codes, and the paper clip trick doesn't give you a reading, you might want to start looking for a replacement ECU.

*edit*
But, before you do any of that...
When you turn the key to ON, does the Check Engine Light seem especially dim compared to the rest?

 

[LongIslandSHO]

Clean the pins on the EEC connector and make sure they make good contact. If your code reader still cannot recover the codes, and the paper clip trick doesn't give you a reading, you might want to start looking for a replacement ECU.

*edit*
But, before you do any of that...
When you turn the key to ON, does the Check Engine Light seem especially dim compared to the rest?

YES! The check engine light IS very dim compared to the rest!! what does that mean??

btw - the code reader and paperclip method still netted no results... The car did not run any diagnostics and I got no codes :-(

p.s. - the crank sensor is good, because the tach does move when the engine cranks.

 

[sperold]

The tach is more aligned to the camshaft sensor than the cranks sensor.
The crank sensor is a good possibility if the car just cranks over with no attempt to fire. It is the core signal that pretty well sets up everything to run in a timing sense.
The no code issue is a puzzle.

 

[itwonder]

Make sure the bolt that secures the crossover tube to the intake is installed, and the ground strap that goes from the rear of the intake to the body is installed. They are essential to ground the DIS. Jumper a lower DIS bolt to battery ground to rule out a grounding problem. If that checks out, I would look at the crank position sensor.

 

[rubydist]

the fact that the tach jumps up while cranking tells you nothing about the crank sensor.

it only tells you that the cam sensor is working.

 

[RichieSHO34]

Not to steal his thunder but i'm a little too nervous to do my own plug well seals, What's a reasonable price from a mechanic?

 

[Racer X]

YES! The check engine light IS very dim compared to the rest!! what does that mean??

It means your CCRM is bad.

This particular failure mode looks very similar to an ECU failure, and admittedly had me tricked when I mistakenly diagnosed Tommy's SHO (SHOCH on here) with a failed ECU at Waterford Hills, when it was in fact the CCRM.

 

[LongIslandSHO]

It means your CCRM is bad.

This particular failure mode looks very similar to an ECU failure, and admittedly had me tricked when I mistakenly diagnosed Tommy's SHO (SHOCH on here) with a failed ECU at Waterford Hills, when it was in fact the CCRM.

So since the CCRM controls the fuel pump, do you think that this could have been causing the seemingly "lean" condition that was going on in my car?

Also - would a bad CCRM cause the car to not enter it's diagnostic mode or throw any of the codes when using the paperclip or the code reader?

Thanks

 

[trainguy1989]

Well the PCM is hardly receiving any juice, so yes it is possible for the PCM to enter diagnostic mode.

 

[Racer X]

So since the CCRM controls the fuel pump, do you think that this could have been causing the seemingly "lean" condition that was going on in my car?

Also - would a bad CCRM cause the car to not enter it's diagnostic mode or throw any of the codes when using the paperclip or the code reader?

Thanks

Yes, and yes.

 

[LongIslandSHO]

ok guys - latest update. Got a new/used ICRM/CCRM... put it in, didn't change anything... so then I decided to check the fuses. (I obv should have done this in the first place... prob would have saved myself $$$$!)
Anyway, I pulled the cover off the engine fuse box, all the big fuses were fine... it was the little 10A in the M1 (ignition coil) slot that was blown... so I replaced it, and when I went to crank the car, it blew again. Then I replaced it a 3rd time, and the car started up... as if there was nothing wrong....
However - I drove the car, and it's still doing it's little sputtering bit... albeit not as bad as it was...
My question for you guys is this - what would possibly have caused the M1 fuse to have blown originally (which is obv what caused my car to die...) while at the same time is causing this sputtering bit?

Thanks!! Much appreciated as always.
Gregg

 

[rubydist]

most likely cause is a wiring problem - wires rubbing together causing intermittent short. it could also be a bad dis and/or pcm, but much less likely.