My SHO is "unalignable"?

[SHOtimer]

True, I want to keep my car as close to factory as I can, it is just a weird thing that I have, but if I have to break those welds to align it then I have to, I'm not that obsessed with them. I just was hoping I wouldn't have to, but it sounds like it is necessary. Rick, do you know of a shop in this area that would break the welds and put it into proper alignment. Bigbear never mentioned them and just said I was stuck with it that way, so I don't want to take it back there if they don't want to. I also took it Lamar Bros. and they said it would only correct 1 degree and I was 2 degrees out so it wouldn't be a significant enough change. Do you have any suggestions of where to take it in Salinas? Thanx, Doug

 

[SHOtimer]

I was just out observing the strut tower and what all would happen by breaking the spot welds. So, right now the plate it held their by the spot welds. So, when they are broken the only thing that holds them in place is just the torque from the three bolts that connect the mount the tower and plate, correct? Now, if I do break the spot welds and move the plate around I would think that the alignment would fall out of place a lot easier than it does now, is that correct? Or does it stay as solid with the welds broken that it does with them as they are now? Thanx, Doug

 

[Mr Anonymous]

The correct procedure is to rivet the plates in place once the camber is back in spec.

I've never done it, and never had any problems with a car coming out of camber despite the best efforts of New England's less-than-smooth roads.

Especially with aftermarket/lowering springs, I'd actually prefer not to rivet the plates in place until the new springs have had a chance to settle, and after getting a second alignment.

Not to poke too much fun, but it baffles me that people would have such a hang-up over maintaining their stock camber plates welded in place on cars anywhere from 9-15 years old with well over 100K on them (especially if you keep your strut tower covers in place -- you can't even see the plates then!!!). That's like saying I want to keep the original 1994 brake pads and rotors on my car since they came from the factory and I want to maintain as much stock equipment as possible. It's a more important safety issue than how I "feel" about the stock parts. An alignment is also an important safety issue.

P.S. You can just use a drill bit wide enough to drill out the welds if you don't have access to a air chisel or die grinder.

 

[shojuan]

Big Bear told me the same thing when I was inquiring about the SHO 18 months ago when I took my truck in for an alignment. They did a good job aligning my truck and I bet they wouldn't have any troubles getting a good alignment on the SHO if you took the car in with the spot welds broken. Why not get the rotorbor tool I mentioned and have at it yourself? You would probably be more conscientious about it than just about anybody else. You could get a $12 right angle adapter from harbor freight to pop on your drill to make access to the rear welds easier. Then undo the top three mount nuts (the struts aren't going anywhere) once you get the plate broken free and move the plate out of the way so you can file what's left of the the spot welds on the strut towers down smooth. Coat the bare metal with some rustoleum...if you don't get the surfaces finished as well as you'd like then you'll have another chance in spring when the struts are removed. There's a huge difference between -2.0 degrees and -1.0 degress. -1.0 degrees is about the point beyond which you get the uneven wear. A lot of people don't have problems with uneven wear at -1.0 degrees. -2.0 degrees WILL cause a lot of uneven wear. With my spot welds broken and my Eibachs I'm at about -0.8 degrees up front. If I had widened the slots a little bit I could have gotten a little bit more out of it.

Ok, once you break the spot welds and have everything cleaned up, rustoleum dry, and plates back in place you can move the strut tops as far to the outside (towards the wheels) as they will go. This will require some gentle persuasion with the wheels on the ground. If you jack the car up so the wheels clear the ground then it should be easier. Use a rubber mallet to whack the strut top. Put a socket over the center nut if you want. You may as well knock the struts as far towards the firewall as you can for the most positive caster. Tighten those top three nuts, about 30 ft-lb I think. Make sure the tires are more or less straight up and down...you want to make sure you don't have some crazy toe. Zero toe looks straight. Even a little toe in or toe out should be pretty obvious... Then have Big Bear or wherever check the camber and set the toe. hmmm you can even spend $13 at Harbor Freight for their Centech toe gauge and check (and adjust!) toe yourself.

You might want to give these guys a call

Custom Alignment
Chassis alignments, wheel balancing, and specialty suspension work.
2599 Wyandotte Mountain View CA 94043
Phone: 650-961-5311

and ask them how much a front alignment will be if they break the spot welds. It's about a 70-80 minute drive from your place and they're not cheap. But they'll be the ones breaking the welds if that's what you want. Maybe the price will be right. I think I was quoted $180 for a four wheel alignment about a year ago. So two wheel is going to be less.

 

[SHOtimer]

Alright, once I break the welds and move the struts around I assume I would then need to take it in and get an alignment? But, I would have the piece of mind knowing it was done right, and they would be able to adjust the camber, toe, caster and such with the welds already broken, and get it within spec? So, that sounds like what I need to do, yes?

Rick, I assume the rotobor is the tool # 85790 at Specialty Products? I could not locate it on the website but I wrote down the phone # and was going to give them a call. Is this a type of rotor/grinder tool used to cut underneithe the plates to release the welds? Or should I just take a drill with the bit the same size as those circle welds and drill down till they are broken or is that a bit of a sloppy/incorrect way to go about it?

Thanx, Doug

 

[shojuan]

It's just a special cutting bit that ought to do a cleaner job than a regular drill bit. Go here -> click on "APPS./PRODUCTS" up at the top -> click on "PRODUCTS" on the left -> enter 85790 into the part number box and there you go.

I must be off my rocker. I got about 2 hours of sleep last night. Since you're going to need to take it to get aligned anyways, no need to move the strut around after you break the welds and clean up the mating surfaces. The alignment guy can do that. Just tell him you want maximum postive caster, zero toe, and about -0.5 degrees camber.

You still might get some uneven tire wear because of the worn out suspension components due to "suspension tramp".

If you want to get a really good book that explains all this stuff plus a lot more then order a copy of "How To Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn from Amazon.

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, sweet my parents wanted to know if their was anything else I wanted for X-mas I can give them that part # and their phone # and get me a proper alignment. Ok, so I understand what is going on..once I get the welds broken I can unbolt the plate and remove it and the strut will stay where it is while I clean up the mating surfaces? Also, after the welds are broken it is just the torque of those 3 bolts that are holding the alignment in place, correct? Well, thank you everybody for your input and patience explaining this to me I appreciate it. hail

Thanx, Doug

 

[shojuan]

SHOtimer:
Well, sweet my parents wanted to know if their was anything else I wanted for X-mas I can give them that part # and their phone # and get me a proper alignment. Ok, so I understand what is going on..once I get the welds broken I can unbolt the plate and remove it and the strut will stay where it is while I clean up the mating surfaces? Also, after the welds are broken it is just the torque of those 3 bolts that are holding the alignment in place, correct? Well, thank you everybody for your input and patience explaining this to me I appreciate it. hail

Thanx, Doug

Yeah, those three studs on the mount will be all that's holding the camber in place. It's enough to hold it though. Also I'm not completely sure it the camber plate can be completely removed without bending the two guide tabs with the strut installed. My struts were out when I did mine. I guess I could try to remove a plate tomorrow to see.

You know, you could always ask your parents for alignment tools for X-mas and that book I mentioned. My camber gauge was about $70 an it's accurate to an 1/8th a degree (shoot, you can eyeball it to a 1/16th if you really want). And there's that Centech toe gauge for $13 from Harbor Freight or a few dollers more from the same guy who sells the camber gauge I got. It's more time consuming than having a shop do it but you can align your car whenever you want and there's the satisfaction of doing it yourself and not being dependant on paid labor.

 

[SHOtimer]

Ok, well whether or not the plate does completely remove itself, how and what am I going to be cleaning between the plate and the strut tower? I assume that their will be obviously a hole going through the plate and the strut tower so I would want to probably just smooth out that metal and spray it with some type of protectant so that it won't rust away (not like we really need to worry about that here anyways ). So, is that the basic concept of removing the plate just to smooth out the metal and to paint it or cover it up in a sense to protect it so it is not exposed to rust and ect?
Thanx, Doug

 

[shojuan]

You got it. Except that the idea is to NOT drill a hole through the strut tower. When you drill through the weld you drill just enough to break the weld. Then you smooth out the rough edges between the plate and the strut tower (little bits of weld will be sticking up above the surface of the tower sheet metal).

 

[SHOZ123]

On my '97 with the strut tower brace I just took the plates off completely. Can't see that they were really doing anything.

 

[shojuan]

You can use them to help you get a rough alignment on the car. There are notches on the plates and lines indented into the towers plus you can always make your own lines, marks, or whatever. Other than that they give the factory assemblers something to shoot for before they actually measure the alignment, plus something to spot weld to the towers. That's my guess anyways FWIW.

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, how in the world am I supposed to know when I have gone through the weld? What could happen if I go through the strut tower? Or is it pretty noticeable when I break through the welds, as opposed to going through the tower?
Doug