Mid lower 60k....*Victory over the sprocket!*

[SHOtimer]

Well, the SHO went into the garage yesterday evening and I have had the pleasure of working on it all day. I have found many things that upset me and some that are good news, and several questions have also surfaced. So, I'll deal with the questions first.

1. I have a craftsman harmonic balancer puller but it doesn't have a pair of bolts to fit into the crank pulley. What size/type of bolts do I need to go pick up in order to properly thread and pull the pulley?

2. Ok, the marks on the cams line up with the tabs on the metal plate behind it and the crank pulley and lower timing cover is still on. The white line on the crank pulley is about 1/8-1/4 of an inch forward of the last zero on the lower timing cover, (forward as in toward the front of the car). I thought that the white line on the pulley had to line up with that zero to be at TDC? Should I leave it there or does that not really matter, and I should just concentrate on the dot on the timing sproket and the dot on the oil pump?

Ok, those are my two questions now on to the comments. Well, this is the first frontal 60k that this car has ever received, original water pump, timing belt and I had the original CPS replaced by Ford when I got the car (and I was totally ignorant of the SHO and this forum). So, I pull everything as far apart as I can for now, and the middle timing cover is broken in half and that wasn't caused by me. The cover was held together by gasket maker to make it stick together and the rubber seal on the edge of it against the block was also coated in sealant madflame . Then I notice coolant all over underneith the water pump and such, the lower weep hole is just coated with a green jelly along with everything beneith it. Fouling out my crank sensor which I been having problems with anyways, this is most likely the cause. So, everything is going smooth thus far, but that be a little optomistic because I'm still in the teardown stage. But, I enjoy finding problems and being able to correct so now I know it will be right, along with the peace of mind that I did it. So, that is what is goin on so far, I'm sure I will encounter more. So, as of now those two questions are all that is preventing me from moving forward, hope you can help with them. Thanx, Doug

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: SHOtimer ]</small>

 

[Mr Anonymous]

1. M8 x 1.25 for the crank pulley removal bolts. Timing sprocket I want to say M5 x 1.0, but not 100% sure off the top of my head (the timing cover bolts are the right thread and pitch, but on an ATX you only have one that's long enough to use with a yoke type puller).

2. Yup, just worry about the mark on the timing sprocket lining up with the mark on the oil pump housing when you get to that point.

The middle timing cover has been broken on at least 50% of the SHO's I've seen.

 

[SHOtimer]

Ok, so everything is disassembled; timing belt off, cam sprokets off, the cover behind them, everything except the water pump and the crank sensor. The more I disassembled the more coolant I found, the pump was really leaking out of the weep hole and I didn't even know it. When I spin the pump to, the bearings seems to be really gone. Well, not to bad for an original at 153k. So, I have a couple new questions

1. I need to pull off the timing sproket, is a M5x1.0 correct, what is the type of bolts that I need to buy to pull it?

2. When reinstalling the timing sproket and crank pulley, do I just set the key in the keyway and line everything up and press on the sproket? How do I do this to ensure everything goes back together smoothly and I don't damage the key, crank or the sproket.

3. The water pump: I haven't pulled it off yet but can I just pull off the front and not disturb the O-rings? I don't see where they are or where they could be, I have them is it worth it to pull it apart more in order to change them. I can't seem to locate them in the Helms.

4. I want to remove the timing belt tensioner idler pulley as to not get coolant all over it when I remove/replace the water pump. Yet, I cannot find the torque for the bolt that holds it to the block (I know I shouldn't touch the one in the middle of the tensioner idler pulley), anyone know the torque for that?

5. In the Helms it has a whole list of things to do if installing a new timing belt, but that isn't necessary for reinstalling a used timing belt. I remember people saying that it wasn't necessary to do all this for a new belt and it would be just fine to compress the tensioner and put it back on even if it was a new belt. Do, I need to do all of the stuff it suggest (involving buyig all these tensioning tools and such) or should I just install the new one, compress the tensioner and be done with it?

6. Lastly, I have fully disassembled my intake and cleaned it up, it was nasty! I have all new gaskets and vacuum hoses and such, but I cannot find anywhere in the Helms that has torque specs for the intake it self, ie: the secondaries to the tanks, and the primary runners to the tanks.

Thanx, for your help thus far, hope this all goes together as smootly as it is coming apart!

Doug

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: SHOtimer ]</small>

 

[luigisho]

I think they are M6 or M5. I think M6 but they are cheap enough to get both sizes to be sure. Are you sure it's only 1" in lenght. It's been a while but I thought it was longer than that.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Ok, here goes...

1. The correct bolts to remove the timing sprocket are M5 x .8 x 90mm long. Just get grade 8.8 or better bolts; you might have to do a little shopping around to find these bolts, most hardware stores and places like Home Depot and Lowes don't usually have a good selection of metric fasteners. You might need to find a fastener store.

2. Yes. If you clean off the crank and the inside of the timing sprocket, and squirt a little lubricant of some sort (I usually use dielectric grease) inside the sprocket, it should slide on pretty easily -- you shouldn't need to force it.

3. Yes, you can just remove the water pump and leave the rear case housing in place, BUT, it will make removing the old gasket material a little more difficult, and if you've got an O-ring leaking, you're going to have to remove the rear case housing as well (with your mileage I'd do it anyway...).

4. The specified torque for the timing tensioner bolts is 12-17 lb-ft (or 16-23 nm), and if you remove the pulley assembly I'd say this would be an appropriate tq range for the pulley bolt. (FWIW, I never remove the pulley. If your pump has been leaking, it's already been wet, and a little more coolant really won't effect it; just wipe it dry before installing the timing belt.)

5. On the ATX, just remove the two bolts that hold the automatic timing belt tensioner in place, and swing the pulley out to relieve tension and get it out of the way. As long as you don't loosen the eccentric nut on the tensioner pulley, you can install a new (or used) timing belt without resetting the tension on the pulley. Just compress the piston in the tensioner as per the Helms.

6. I don't ever recall seeing a specified torque for reassembling the intake... I'd say just go with a even torque, no more than about 10 lb-ft. Maybe someone else has actually seen the spec and can chime in.

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Anonymous ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

If the while mark on the damper was not exactly at the "0" mark on the lower timing belt cover when the camshaft pulley index marks were aligned with the index marks, either the belt was a tooth off or the keyway or keyway slot was damaged. Inspect the keyway and damper and crank pulley slots for "crank cancer."

You reinstall the pulleys on the crank by cleaning any rust from the shaft and pulley interior bores and pressing them on the shaft. You can glaze the shaft with grease to prevent future rusting. DO NOT hammer them on the crankshaft or risk damaging the oil pump or crankshaft thrust bearings.

The bolts to pull the crankshaft damper are M8x80mm and the bolts to pull the crankshaft timing belt pulley are M6x80mm. Those bolts are more than 3" (80mm) long so a 1" long bolt won't work.

The torque for the tensioner locknut is 25-37 lb-ft. You can alternately cover the tensioner with plastic to keep the coolant off it. If removing the tensioner, note the orientation of the spring ends to make sure that you reinstall it correctly. That tensioner is critical to the health of the timing belt.

The center timing belt cover is usually cracked by those who try to force it off without removing the rearmost bolt near the power steering pump. You can use epoxy or some other adhesive to mend the cover, but ther is no gain from using sealant at the rubber seal between the cover and the block.

It is very important that you fully tension the crankshaft damper bolt after the assembly is complete. The spec on that bolt is 113-126 lb-ft.

 

[SHOtimer]

Ok, thanks Scott and Chris for clearing up some of my questions. Now, for the water pump nowhere in the Helms have I seen or read anything about the O-rings, yet I do know that they are there. Once I get the front of the pump off how do I remove the back half? Then at that point I just clean everything up, coat the O-rings with coolant and reinstall, what would I torque the back half to? Thanx, Doug

 

[F-22 Raptor SHO]

I've only done this procedure once, but as a newbie to it, I think you and I encountered similar questions.

1: To answer your water pump question, Look at the new pump you just bought from www.rockauto.com (or oreiley's or where ever). I think you will find that you only have one half of it and are not supposed to take the "back part" off.


2: I am surprized Mr. Scott did not ask this question, but I cant hold back: why are you pulling the Cam Sprockets off anyways? By releasing the tension on the belt using the belt tensioner, you should be able to take the timing belt off without removing the cam sprockets. Unless there is some other work you are doing that I dont know about from this message, I am confused as to why you would take em out if they dont need to be removed.

3: Scott is not kidding about that crank bolt.....Mine actually backed out a bit after my procedure due to improper torquing. Scared the you know what out of me too....all I did was reach down just to check it with my hand and it was finger tight and 1 inch out of the hole. doh

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, I was going to take the back part off in order to service the O-rings. As for the cam sprokets, I had to remove those to get the plate behind them off in order to properly route my CPS wire. It is a necessity on the 3.2 in order to properly install the CPS, it isn't necessary on the 3.0 which is prolly why you didn't understand why. Thanx, Doug

 

[Dr. Tweak]

eep... eek!


I just finished this very job yesterday and I just realized that I torqued my crankshaft damper bolt to 150 fl/lbs....

could i have damaged anything? The car has been running great all day...

Also, i noticed the waterpump pulley seems to be vibrating a little bit, is this normal? I'm sure that the waterpump and pulley bolts are tightened... shrug

 

[sdpatt]

If you have a complete water pump, once you remove all of the bolts at the casing of the pump and the lower radiator hose, the only things keeping the pump from falling off are the O-ring seals at the upper outlet to the tube that travels down the center of the valley. Even if only replacing the remanufactured front half of the pump, it may be easier to remove the rear half of the pump to thoroughly clean the ****** faces and ensure that the O-ring between the pump and the block is still in place. The O-ring on the upper outlet is mounted on the crossover tube and is not likely to come off with the pump. There is no need to remove the rear timing belt cover to access any of the pump parts.

It would be wise to obtain the Fel-Pro ES70425 water pump seal set from RockAuto.com for $5.25 or slightly more through local auto supplies. It will have the O-rings, the pump case gasket and the inlet tube two-bolt ****** gasket. You should not need the fiber gaskets, but those O-rings will be appreciated.

The long bolts that secure the pump seat into the iron block and may be torqued well, but the shorter bolts are seated in the aluminum back pump case and can easily strip if overtightend.

The CPS wiring can be routed very easily in the 3.2L when the water pump has been removed. There is no need to remove the rear timing belt cover unless you are replacing the camshaft seals. A trick is to route it forward of the fuel rails. There is no reason it must travel behind the rails. I use a 2' strand of 2-conductor speaker wire and rout it down from above. I remove the clip from the upper connector to make it smaller and tie the wire onto the plastic connector. I then pull the wire and connector up through the easily traveled path.

Doug, I have emailed you a pdf file of the old timing belt replacement procedure. Check you box.

 

[SHOtimer]

Thank you Scott for your thoughts, you certainly cleared things up and made me realize that I did a bit more work than I needed to. I received your mail, you also now have something in your box! Thanx again, Doug

...Now I just need to locate a new middle timing cover and those two rubber grommets (my SHO showed no evidence of having them..grrrr)

 

[SHOtimer]

Ok, everything is apart and ready to go back together. My only question at this point is what is the torque for the peice that the water pump is behind on an ATX. It covers up the back half of the pump and has a timing belt idler on it. Thanx, Doug

 

[sdpatt]

Do you mean the timing belt idler pulley bracket that mounts forward of the pump and traps the inlet tubing? I believe those are 12-17 lb-ft, but you can check the AutoZone procedures available through the first topic in this section.

 

[SHOtimer]

Yes, Scott that is the bracket I am referring to. I knew that the pump is supposed to be between 12-17lbs but I wasn't sure if that bracket has a higher torque because it seemed to be held in tighter and it is going into the block, not aluminum. I'll check out the autozone instructions. Thanx, Doug

Edit: Checked the auotzone website and it is the same instructions that the Helms has, so I guess I will go ahead with that torque for the bracket also. Thanx, Doug

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: SHOtimer ]</small>

 

[Dr. Tweak]

um, maybe I'm lost here but isn't the block aluminum? so those bolts are going into aluminum...

 

[Mr Anonymous]

JDLangevin:
um, maybe I'm lost here but isn't the block aluminum? so those bolts are going into aluminum...

Lost in the wilderness! Cast iron block, aluminum heads.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

oh.... LMAO

laugh_ti rofl

Someone once told me it was aluminum... oh well. So that's why it's so heavy... slap

 

[SHOtimer]

Alright, gettin ready to install the water pump. The Helms says I need to use sealant to position the gasket, but should I lightly coat both sides of the gasket for the water pump to ensure that it is fully sealed? Thanx, Doug

P.S. If anybody has the two rubber grommets (one goes between the block and the oil pump and the other between the oil pump and the timing belt tensioner) I would love to take them off your hands.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

You don't need to coat both side of the gasket to get the seal, that's what the gasket is for. Can't hurt though.

For those grommets, email Adam, I think his email is [email protected] he is parting out some SHOs.