Merkur SHO transplant

[Brett]

This argument could go allllll day. Ofcourse we're gonna back up the yamahammer .

if you can find head gaskets? RCM head gaskets

Sure a RWD car is going to be faster in the quarter mile. Trouble with the money and quarter mile time comparison is your comparing putting 5500 into a merkur, and a taurus, not the motors themselves. You put an 11 sec merkur up against any of the SHOs putting down around 500whp and running 13's on the highway and its going to be a much better race.

A boosted SHO can be done for that 5500 and with pistons. Capable of 400-500whp + all day long with alot more torque (obviously) then the 2.3t.

650hp SHO motor would not be as expensive as some would think. Key word here, the Motor, not a 650hp SHO. The motor is quite capable, the platform is not. The only place you'd really have to bite the bullet is paying the 800 for low compression pistons. Stock rods, crank, heads have been proven to some pretty high numbers.

Assuming you do your own work, 5500 would be more then enough (if all of the money went into the motor) to make a 500whp+ SHO motor, But i think your 5500 number was to make the entire merkur car 11/12 second. The rest of these cars is where you shoot yourself in the foot. Trying to keep that power going to the ground and not shattering your transmission is the pricey part of boosting SHOs IMO.

I dont think anyone would argue it'd be more cost efficient to start with the motor that was in the car in the first place, and already boosted. I'd imagine the only reason someone would even consider the swap is for the "wow pretty intake" factor.

 

[SHOCH]

Saw a white one w/ a 331 cid in one at Carlisle last year, had about 427 atw dyno sheet on the dash.
I had one too, 84' and loved it.

 

[SeanMc]

TT Sho, I never make a statement without fact to back it up. So here you go, I will show you two. Also, I am far from young, so check your condescending tone before you assume I am a know nothing noob.

Jon Huber of Huber performance.
http://www.gatewayraceway.com/track/news/article.php?dir=200704&id=1021
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBNCT4AvzMc

Joe Morgan, or "turbo Joe"
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/75638_2000_drag_ford_focus_wagon/index.html

Sho Go
Sure the stock head gaskets fail regularly. The take an hour to change (does a sho's if you can find them?) and a cometic fixes the problem forever. I push 25 psi through my SVO with a holset he351 and a cometic and have never had a failure. Plus, several people in the turbo-ford community have tested a bone stock short block to over 500whp @ 30 psi before a failure, and that was generated at the rod bolts. It is a tough motor, that is why mini stock racers country-wide still use them.

I certainly am not saying it is the best engine out there, it doesn't look or sound as good as a sho, the electronics aren't even top notch by russian standards, it has its quirks (like sho rod bearings) like the headgasket, but give the little 2.3 its due. It can be made very fast for a lot less money than a sho motor can.

Yup, know a guy running 20psi, ported intake, ported heads, bigger valves, gutted lower, cam w/adjustable sprocket, fuel pressure turned up....untuned. He's making over 300 at the motor and it doesn't ping. Amazingly engineered cars. And yes, they are RWD only.

 

[roland]

wouldn't the 2000-2002 Lincoln LS's 5 speed manual from the V6 bolt up to the V8 SHO? It's hooked up to a duratec V6 in the LS so I don't think it would be any different than the SHO.

 

[JEM]

Yup, know a guy running 20psi, ported intake, ported heads, bigger valves, gutted lower, cam w/adjustable sprocket, fuel pressure turned up....untuned. He's making over 300 at the motor and it doesn't ping. Amazingly engineered cars. And yes, they are RWD only.

Yeah, so? That's a lot of work to get to 300HP compared to, say, a Saab B234T or an Audi AAN or half a dozen Japanese motors or...

I know you can make anything with a turbo on it make fairly big power as long as it's strong enough not to let the rods go flying out the pan, but let's not pretend the Ford 2.3 is something it isn't.

It's nothing special.

Yes, folks massage engines that are nothing special all the time (really, the SHO motor has as many bad points as good ones too.)

Yes, you can get power out of the 2.3, but making one breathe means a lot of head work or an aftermarket head.

And it's still a long-stroke, big-displacement balance-shaftless shaker.

 

[93rev2sev]

wouldn't the 2000-2002 Lincoln LS's 5 speed manual from the V6 bolt up to the V8 SHO? It's hooked up to a duratec V6 in the LS so I don't think it would be any different than the SHO.

I've done a LITTLE research on this and yes...it's a possible win...but good luck finding a manual LS thats being parted out....you would be better off buying an LS and making IT your project car. Gen 1 OR 2 SHO motors should bolt up.

Can you imagine a 600HP lincoln with a Getrag 5-Speed?!?!

YOWZAAA!!!!

 

[roland]

I've done a LITTLE research on this and yes...it's a possible win...but good luck finding a manual LS thats being parted out....you would be better off buying an LS and making IT your project car. Gen 1 OR 2 SHO motors should bolt up.

Can you imagine a 600HP lincoln with a Getrag 5-Speed?!?!

YOWZAAA!!!!

I was thinking a Lincoln LS with a V8 SHO engine would be really nice. It'd definitely be the car to go with if one were considering building a V8 SHO motor. Manual and RWD , plus a more quality interior.

 

[JEM]

I was thinking a Lincoln LS with a V8 SHO engine would be really nice. It'd definitely be the car to go with if one were considering building a V8 SHO motor. Manual and RWD , plus a more quality interior.

Better still, just get an '03-up LS V8 and forget the SHO motor entirely.

Then if you want you can work on adapting a manual transmission to that, without having to worry about adapting everything ELSE just to install an engine that makes 50 less HP and a whole lot less torque.

 

[SHO GoDz 89]

Now show me a sho that for $5500 including the cost of the car, that can run low 12, high 11 with a bone stock non rebuilt 123K mile bottom end, get 28mpg on the highway, and has forged internals to handle the high boost.

SHO's have forged internals stock, cept for the pistons. I think someone here proved that a stock SHO motor (3.2 no cams or intake mods) can push 400+whp and still have plenty of boost left before the engine breaks.

It wouldn't cost much to make a lot of HP on a SHO motor, but like many people said, it is the matter of getting the power to the ground without breaking the transmission....that's the expensive part.

 

[SeanMc]

Yeah, so? That's a lot of work to get to 300HP compared to, say, a Saab B234T or an Audi AAN or half a dozen Japanese motors or...

I know you can make anything with a turbo on it make fairly big power as long as it's strong enough not to let the rods go flying out the pan, but let's not pretend the Ford 2.3 is something it isn't.

It's nothing special.

Yes, folks massage engines that are nothing special all the time (really, the SHO motor has as many bad points as good ones too.)

Yes, you can get power out of the 2.3, but making one breathe means a lot of head work or an aftermarket head.

And it's still a long-stroke, big-displacement balance-shaftless shaker.

It's untuned. Throw a turbo on a SHO motor and run 20psi untuned and tell me what happens . He dyno'd at ~265whp/280wtq.

 

[shogansta]

It's untuned. Throw a turbo on a SHO motor and run 20psi untuned and tell me what happens . He dyno'd at ~265whp/280wtq.

SHOboom?

 

[roland]

Better still, just get an '03-up LS V8 and forget the SHO motor entirely.

Then if you want you can work on adapting a manual transmission to that, without having to worry about adapting everything ELSE just to install an engine that makes 50 less HP and a whole lot less torque.

wouldn't be a bad idea, I don't know that jag has any manual transmissions laying around for their V8, and good luck finding one being parted out. The SHO V8 isn't much more powerful than the V6 though, so I guess it's time for a Noble swap

 

[JEM]

wouldn't be a bad idea, I don't know that jag has any manual transmissions laying around for their V8, and good luck finding one being parted out. The SHO V8 isn't much more powerful than the V6 though, so I guess it's time for a Noble swap

Actually, the SHO V8 makes less power than the late (VVT) 240HP Duratec V6s, and a fair bit less power than the late (VVT) V8s. The '00-02 LS V8s were booked at 252HP, the Jags got VVT and made 280. When Jag went to 300HP and 4.2L then the LS got the 280HP VVT 4.0 (they called it a 3.9 but it was the same engine.)

To my knowledge the Jag V8s were not sold with a manual transmission, but they got the ZF 6HP26 6-speed automatic. In the current economic climate I've heard of '03 S-type Rs (the 380HP blower car, '03 was the first year with the upgraded interior) going for under $20K so, unless you really need the back-seat room of the LS, you might as well buy the Jag.

Actually, a quick look at eBay shows that you can have an S-type R for every day of the week for probably $15K apiece.

 

[aarmel732]

if you can find head gaskets? RCM head gaskets

Yea, Looked. 3.4 head gaskets are falling off the shelves they have so many. My bad.

 

[roland]

a merkur scorpio would be really nice with a SHO V6 and a T5. Not sure if it'd just be easier to put that Cosworth 2.9 DOHC V6 in it though, it'd be interesting to see how the two motors compare in the same car.

 

[Brett]

Yea, Looked. 3.4 head gaskets are falling off the shelves they have so many. My bad.

I apologize i thought you meant for the v6. Doug lewis has mentioned more then once, i believe just recently in a thread that he has the gaskets in stock.

 

[FlaSho]

hehe. the SVO stock is 16 psi and putting out 200 hp...

20psi with 265hp? yawn... oh and 4 more cylinders.

(odd how many former SVO owners are now SHO owners)

I sold mine because it was a tight fit for me= 601 / 270lb gorilla.

 

[SeanMc]

hehe. the SVO stock is 16 psi and putting out 200 hp...

20psi with 265hp? yawn... oh and 4 more cylinders.

(odd how many former SVO owners are now SHO owners)

I sold mine because it was a tight fit for me= 601 / 270lb gorilla.

Like I said dude, it's untuned. Tuned that thing should be a beast. He's running all stock piping as well. But, that 265 is at the rear wheels, so with the 17% calculation, that's 310 at the flywheel.

 

[mustangracer91]

please forgive my rambling, but I've done alot of research on this,
to get back to the inital question of the thread, the v8 SHO engine would be an excellent choice which I've considered myself for a XR4x4 project for a couple reasons, one, torque is very nice for the added weight of the 4x4, although it's a PITA to source all the 4wd stuff, not to mention the majority of it was produced RHD, trying to get that stuff fixed in the USA is a nightmare. The 3.4 is an insanely fast winding motor, and for all the advantages of the 2.3t, it's a heavy motor compared to the all aluminum 3.4. I would venture to guess that a fully decked out 3.4 (all the accessories, heads, intake, etc,) and a 2.3t decked out are going to be the same weight with possibly a little weight advantage in the 3.4's corner. You can build a 2.5Liter turbo with the crank out of a later ranger in the 2.3 to help with bumping up some torque, and with all the aftmkt cam options makes it a sweeter choice for tuning. As far as your transmission goes, you CAN run a T5 from a mustang/svo/turbocoupe/or sierra, they also sell a bellhousing to allow you to run the stock T9 that comes in the merkur. Check out www.quad4rods.com, they are the only ones who sell your custom bellhousing that will bolt up to your duratec pattern. Also the 3.4 was primarily designed by cosworth, and was produced by yamaha...if you know your sierras, the euro sierras are made by cosworth and I can't help but feel that this 3.4 was designed for the merkur/sierra. Unless you're rally racing it, the 4x4 is just a waste of weight and time. A good posi 2wd xr with the 3.4 would make a very fun track car/dd, because you don't have the quirky power on/off of the turbo. BTW, that's still not taking into account the computer for the engine, or your harness issues either...weight would be down, and you'd be closer to the 50/50 balance...

 

[mustangracer91]

after some additional research there's a couple other hurdles that have to be overcome with a xr4x4 (which was sold overseas labeled as such), namely the oil pan. The front shaft assembly interferres greatly with the oil pan and will require a custom oil pan made from scratch...and probably a modified pickup tube as well. The forementioned "cossie" sierras that are awd have primarily a DOHC 2.0L that is very **, but very $$, and the bottom end can be built from US parts, however the head/intake/cams/everything else, must be sourced from canada or overseas...the other AWD engine used was the 2.9L used in the scorpio and more commonly, the ranger. World products makes a performance head for these engines, and the DOHC conversion sourced from overseas/canada might be an option? also the hardest part of all is gonna be LHD steering rack, as the bulk of the AWD sierras/xr4x4's built were RHD. 302/5.0 is a great motor for straight line, and there's actually alot of 5.0 v8 xr4ti's out there...but it really would throw the balance off compared to the 2.3 or even 3.4. Surprisingly the 2.9 and 2.3 are heavy because of all the metal and no aluminum, but they are still lighter than the 5.0.