Lots of shavings in trans (no 56k)

[Brett]

So i sit down with this transmission and the SHONUT MTX rebuild dvd. Shit starts going wrong almost immediately. The second bolt to loosen, one that you only loosen and dont take out all the way because it holds a spring became stripped. The metal is so soft that vise grips just eat it. Tried grinding it down and using a big flat head, no avail. Ended up drilling it halfway and grabbing an edge with some pliers. FINALLY got that one out, replaced it with one from my broken case transmission. Id also like to mention that when i drilled this bolt, i did NOT go all the way through, close to half but at no point did the bit come out the other side. I'll get a pic of this bolt tonight. Also this bolt was VERY very tight. It looked so easy in the vid i checked my broken trans and that came out just as easily as the video.

Picture of drilled bolt. ****** quality but you can see that i didnt drill all the way through, just enough to get a surface to grab.


Even in these far off pics you can see where the gears are a shinier grey on the tips, but i dont think they could cause this much shavage




Get back on it last night, get the case off and find this.
The trans has also been worked on judging by all the RTV.



that is ALOT of metal shavings, but i cant find from where. A couple of the gears are missing a TINY amount of meterial from the tip of the teeth, nothing that should cause this much metal.

Whatever, keep going right? The video directs me to take a punch and pound out a pin. OFCOURSE that doesnt go the way its supposed to, now part of the punch is broken off in there and i have to get that out before i can get the pin out.

This is rediculous, nothing comes out easy and every little bolt is a DAYS long ordeal.

Where the F are those metal shavings coming from?

Heres the fun pin that has a broken punch in it. Would it be ok to drill out and use the pin from spare trans?

 

[hawkeye18]

not to be hatin', but that pic could just as easily be a UFO sighting. It's really hard to do any sort of analysis on a pic that fuzzy...

 

[Brett]

not to be hatin', but that pic could just as easily be a UFO sighting. It's really hard to do any sort of analysis on a pic that fuzzy...

I understand and i did use the little "flower" to try to make it more clear. If you know what it is (the donut magnet in the transmission) you know that it isnt that big and that hairy.

 

[93rev2sev]

I think you are too close to the subject. Back off a little and you will get much more clear pictures.

 

[Phoenix]

If the tranny was shifting A-OK , dont bother the shavings , the magnet can almost double its size with fragments of normal metal wear/sludge over the years. Put everything very clean , including the magnet and wrap this up.

Clunks is what you want to fear , if this is mostly sludgy - dont bother.

 

[Racer X]

Macro Mode for the win man.

Look for the little flower icon.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

How many miles are on this tranny . . . ?

As others have eluded to, it's not how much "metal" you find on the magnet (within reason), but what size particles you find.

A relatively easy test, is to take a small amount of the "metal-mash" between two fingers and gently rub to "feel" for chunks. Start out gently, as any shavings will quickly cut into your fingers. What you'll likely find, is that the "metal-mash" will work into an extremely fine silvery paste, which is the result of normal long-term wear. It looks like shavings, as the microscopic metal particles align into filaments due to the magnetic field around the magnet, but in most cases it's not.

 

[Brett]

I did use the macro "flower" thing for the pictures, its hard to steady the hand for those pics, and theres no flash with them.


It is for the most part silver mesh/paste but there are some chunks in there. Nothing huge but big enough to worry me Where are places i should look? Being uneducated in transmissions i dont know where to look for wear.


Also anyone know about this pin? Can it be drilled out?

Retainer spring or some shit that your supposed to get out of the case itself, i obviously had to take that bolt all the way out because it was stripped. Its no longer in that part of the case, any ideas of where it could have fallen? Thanks.

 

[Racer X]

The blurring in those is focus related, not motion related from a slow shutter speed. Trust me. Give it another shot zoomed all the way out rather that zooming in. Move closer or further away as you need to. With better photos, we can better help let you know what's going on inside that gearbox.

If you lost a spring, the floor is a good place to start. They can go pretty far if it gets away from you.

 

[Bizzy]

If you drill that roll pin out, do it very carefully. If you fudge and make it too big the replacement pin won't hold properly. I suppose you could get a size larger pin, but you really don't want to guess whether it'll work or not. You could also try tapping it out from the other side. Be very careful not to get your punch stuck or break it off the other side. That portion of the case is also very easy to crack.

As for the detent plunger/spring, if you can't find it let me know. I've got quite a few of them. I could mail you one as early as tomorrow if need be.

The chunks on your magnet, they came from some place and that's room for concern. Your magnet, is NOT covered with "normal fuzz" that you see from normal wear and tear. If I were to open up a trans with that amount of crap built up on it I would be immediately concerned. You will have to inspect every part, very closely. If you're not sure about something, PM me a picture. I will help you as best I can. Just do it right and take no chances.

Edit: You said it had been sealed with RTV. That would lead me to look for bearing, synchro and blocking ring damage. Also check out the case under the diff to see if you have a nice groove cut in the case.

 

[matasho]

i had this exact problem with a trans i bought to replace my blown diff trans. it was covered with metallic "dust" on every thing. i searched inside the trans and couldnt find anything wrong with any of the parts. Until i REALLY inspected the diff. it was a broken roll pin on one of the small diff pins and the diff pin was sliding out and cutting a groove around the case and then it was slid back into the diff. thats why i couldnt find the problem. and the groove looked like it was spose to be there. i dont know if that trans is any good i kept it and just used another one that i knew was A-OK and tried to repair that trans i pushed the roll pin out and replaced it with a new one and putt the trans back together and i had a kinda Tink Tink Tink noise in 2nd gear so i proved to myself that im not a trans specialist so i used the other trans. but like i said check the diff pins even know they look ok the small roll pin might be broken and allowing the diff pin to slide out and grind in the case. look in the out put shaft hole and use a screw driver or something to push on the pins if one of the two move outward theres the problem. im not sure if the long diff pin can break out but maybe bizzy can correct me on some of this.

mike

 

[Bizzy]

The roll pin for the long pinion shaft could break I suppose, but I've never seen one in all the hundreds of transmissions I've done. It's always one of the two shorter ones because they are the ones that are getting the workout.

 

[Racer X]

FWIW, case shavings from a loose pin shouldn't cause the chunks to stick to the magnet, as the case is non-ferrous.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

FWIW, case shavings from a loose pin shouldn't cause the chunks to stick to the magnet, as the case is non-ferrous.

I hear that cast aluminum is magnetic on Rigel 7.

 

[matasho]

FWIW, case shavings from a loose pin shouldn't cause the chunks to stick to the magnet, as the case is non-ferrous.

but all the case shavings have prolly pluged the lubrication holes for all the bearings and all the trans componets that contact each other are what is causing the metal on the magnet, not the aluminium case but the shavings off bearings, gears, syncros, shafts ect. all caused by inadequate lubrication from aluminium shavings.... maybe, i cant say for sure because super bad pics.

mike

 

[AREA 91]

The roll pin for the long pinion shaft could break I suppose, but I've never seen one in all the hundreds of transmissions I've done. It's always one of the two shorter ones because they are the ones that are getting the workout.

I've seen it Bizzy. It's rare to have the long pin break, but it does happen. I venture to guess that the diff roll pins are almost snapped in half. I bet the spider gears ate the crap out of the pinion shafts too.

 

[Lightning]

not to be hatin', but that pic could just as easily be a UFO sighting. It's really hard to do any sort of analysis on a pic that fuzzy...

I see Bigfoot!!!

 

[AREA 91]

I see Bigfoot!!!

Those big hairy monster's are real.
Official member of the PA Bigfoot Society.:laugh_ti:

 

[Brett]

Thanks for all the help and responses. Seems like nothing goes my way with this car. I work weds-sat full time so needless to say in those days i dont have alot of down time. I wont have time go out there and fiddle with it again until sunday. I will attempt to take some better pictures etc.

 

[Bizzy]

I'll be around on Sunday if you need any help. If you need anything give me a shout.

Edit: There's also a shortcut you could take to get the gear fork seperated from the gate. It involves punching out the bottom roll pin in the gear selector fork. (See image) If you punch that out in the direction that the arrow is going it will free the shaft from its connection to the shift gate so you can remove the bulk of the shaft and gears. Then you'll be more free to fiddle with the roll pin and broken punch.

Also, before you go doing anything, it would be a good idea to manually wiggle and work the shift selector fork so that the 1/2 synchro goes back into the neutral position. If you try to lift it up to remove the gear shaft you run the risk of popping the dogs out of the synchro because it's engaging 1st gear in the pic. It's not that you can't put it back together, but it's just one less thing to have to do.