LMS vs Gearhead "Canned Tunes" Comparison

[brucelinc]

LMS, my plugs are fine, not even a year old and they're gapped to whatever it was you recommend them to be, I think it was .030. But I gave the email to my speedshop guy with your recommended gap. My car is "over-maintained," with oil changes, PTU, transmission, etc.
If I'm turning a corner and floor it - car acts like it goes right into Neutral! Stops accelerating and the revs go right to the limit, 8k or 9k, it's nuts! A lot of times I'll floor it from a standstill and when it's time for car to shift from 2nd into 3rd, it's like going into Neutral again, not 3rd, nothing, no acceleration and revs like mad! I will then instantly get off the throttle and throw it into Neutral as to not harm the engine or transmission.

Wow....that sure sounds like a bad transmission range sensor. My MKS did exactly that at one point. The issue was intermittent, making it hard to diagnose. Eventually there was a TSB on that for the earlier models.

Yours is newer so that is likely not the problem but it sure sounds familiar.

 

[OmaHahn]

Wow....that sure sounds like a bad transmission range sensor. My MKS did exactly that at one point. The issue was intermittent, making it hard to diagnose. Eventually there was a TSB on that for the earlier models.

Yours is newer so that is likely not the problem but it sure sounds familiar.

Not the case - the car runs just perfect in stock mode.

 

[limited02]

I too look forward to the results! I'd be curious how the LMS tune responds to the fresh plugs you're putting in assuming you haven't changed them since first tuned. I'm due to replace mine and thinking of switching to the SP542's as well.

 

[OmaHahn]

I too look forward to the results! I'd be curious how the LMS tune responds to the fresh plugs you're putting in assuming you haven't changed them since first tuned. I'm due to replace mine and thinking of switching to the SP542's as well.

My car already has fresh plugs. Installed new stock plugs gapped to .030 about 5 months ago. The only thing I'm doing is taking out the LMS tune and installing the Gearhead tune, but Gearhead recommends the colder Motorcraft 542 plugs gapped to. 026-.028.

 

[limited02]

My car already has fresh plugs. Installed new stock plugs gapped to .030 about 5 months ago. The only thing I'm doing is taking out the LMS tune and installing the Gearhead tune, but Gearhead recommends the colder Motorcraft 542 plugs gapped to. 026-.028.

I missed that you had fresh plugs already. Did you by any chance see how much boost your LMS tune put out? I'm sure it's in the 14psi range, but it would be nice to know what each tuner is pushing so we can see how the graphs compare.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Not the case - the car runs just perfect in stock mode.

Juts because the problem isnt occurring in the stock calibration does not mean that there is not an issue, with the added power of a tune and some mods the problem could just be showing itself sooner than later. It does sort of sound like there may be an actual issue with the transmission itself but we are still looking into a solution for this

 

[OmaHahn]

Juts because the problem isnt occurring in the stock calibration does not mean that there is not an issue, with the added power of a tune and some mods the problem could just be showing itself sooner than later. It does sort of sound like there may be an actual issue with the transmission itself but we are still looking into a solution for this

Thanks for your time and looking into it. I'm caught off guard with your comment that you're "still looking into a solution for this." I was told to PM LMS to get an updated tune to solve the shifting issues. This was over in the thread titled, "LMS 3 bar V11 93 Bounces off rev limiter." So, do you have an updated tune to address these shifting issues or are you 'still looking into this?'
EDIT: and I find it hard to believe that we all have transmission issues. I've seen plenty of posts on various forums and facebook about shifting issues with LMS tune.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Thanks for your time and looking into it. I'm caught off guard with your comment that you're "still looking into a solution for this." I was told to PM LMS to get an updated tune to solve the shifting issues. This was over in the thread titled, "LMS 3 bar V11 93 Bounces off rev limiter." So, do you have an updated tune to address these shifting issues or are you 'still looking into this?'
EDIT: and I find it hard to believe that we all have transmission issues. I've seen plenty of posts on various forums and facebook about shifting issues with LMS tune.

We just sent you over a PM concerning the conversation that was held, by looking into this i only meant discussing which plan of action would find a solution which we do have available now for anyone having the issue

 

[shoblock]

Time to weigh in. I'm the casting supplier for this motor and sit in the Quality room each morning where warranty issues are discussed and allowed or dis-allowed, so you can see how this piqued my interest. No, I'm not a Ford official.
More than one ecoboost motor has shown up for warranty replacement with rods through the side of the block. Rare, but it happens. Often, an aftermarket tune is detected and warranty is disallowed. I have the data, but I digress.... I put the v-10 tune into my car in 2016 and drove it VERY happily through 13.20's in the quarter and 22 miles per gallon daily driving. Zero issues of any kind.
Then, earlier this year I got my first v-11. After installing and driving around for awhile on a 50 degree day, I did 5 drag starts and ran it up through third gear. NO issues. Ran stronger, and I got excited sensing 12's were finally here.
HOWEVER, the next morning on the way to work, I did my usual daily 'stand on it' going up the highway ramp to quickly attain merging speed and keep the intercooler clean. The sequence is: 1. 90 degree right turn onto the ramp. 2. Slow enough for car to drop to first gear on WOT. 3. Steer. This time I got a very alarming change to the expected results. The tach needle went to the end of travel and turned red, bouncing back and forth between 6500 and 7000. It did not shift to second and I could feel the rev limiter pulsating to keep the motor in the car. I let off, though it took a second to realize I needed to let off, and I got back in after it finally shifted. Then, it did the same thing from second to third, though this time I was ready.
I granny-drove the car after that and wrote to Anthony at LMS expaining my situation. He was fast with a reply. Check transmission fluid level, wait 15 minutes for the car to warm up before WOT runs, install two more different tunes to see which one works better.
I ordered stock plugs and gapped them to a perfect .031". Checked the tranny fluid, which was on the 'min' level and added 16 ounces. Then, after verifying that 16 took it to 'max' on the dipstick, I added 16 more ounces to overfill per Anthony's instructions. One quart total added. I then put in the newly revised v-11 tune Anthony sent, LMS 93 PERF v11 3BAR and drove normally for two weeks. Lots of throttle on the up ramp, but no wot. Then I began WOT tests. Mostly, the car pulled hard and shifted okay. But on one try, completely warmed up, it happened again. Red tach needle and no shift. More like it went into neutral.
Took out LMS 93 PERF v11 3BAR, and installed LMS 93v11 SHIFT 3BAR, drove aggresively but no WOT for two weeks. It's better, but last week on the ramp fully warmed up, tach needle turned red, rev limiter kicked in, but it did shift.
Just had back surgery, so I'm off the road, which brings my story up to today.
One thing I have learned in my career is to never let the customer do my trials when I think I have a fix in place. Recurring issues could easily get me fired. I've been doing this over eight years so I know how it's done.
My fear is Anthony isn't quite to a solution and is collecting data using his customers feedback. I know if I believe I've solved a customer issue, I HAVE to bring data or my credibility goes down the toilet. Saying someone is working on something should never mean they are using customer feedback to generate solution data. Motors can break, and people in the warranty dept are very smart.
My plan when I get back to driving is to go back to the stock tune, cause I don't want my baby to break. She's the best car I ever owned. I'm watching with interest Omahahn's progress with the gearhead tune, as I may follow suit. Or, I may ask Anthony to give me the v-10 back. I'm writing this to help omahahn in his quest, as I share that.
Hope this helps. I feel like this forum is family.

 

[SM105K]

Seems to me this is a V11 issue from all of the people coming out of the woodwork.

 

[shoblock]

Seems to me this is a V11 issue from all of the people coming out of the woodwork.

ya think?!?

 

[SM105K]

ya think?!?

Lol....sometimes.

 

[shoblock]

Lol....sometimes.

Sometimes I just go blank and stare

 

[OmaHahn]

Time to weigh in. I'm the casting supplier for this motor and sit in the Quality room each morning where warranty issues are discussed and allowed or dis-allowed, so you can see how this piqued my interest. No, I'm not a Ford official.
More than one ecoboost motor has shown up for warranty replacement with rods through the side of the block. Rare, but it happens. Often, an aftermarket tune is detected and warranty is disallowed. I have the data, but I digress.... I put the v-10 tune into my car in 2016 and drove it VERY happily through 13.20's in the quarter and 22 miles per gallon daily driving. Zero issues of any kind.
Then, earlier this year I got my first v-11. After installing and driving around for awhile on a 50 degree day, I did 5 drag starts and ran it up through third gear. NO issues. Ran stronger, and I got excited sensing 12's were finally here.
HOWEVER, the next morning on the way to work, I did my usual daily 'stand on it' going up the highway ramp to quickly attain merging speed and keep the intercooler clean. The sequence is: 1. 90 degree right turn onto the ramp. 2. Slow enough for car to drop to first gear on WOT. 3. Steer. This time I got a very alarming change to the expected results. The tach needle went to the end of travel and turned red, bouncing back and forth between 6500 and 7000. It did not shift to second and I could feel the rev limiter pulsating to keep the motor in the car. I let off, though it took a second to realize I needed to let off, and I got back in after it finally shifted. Then, it did the same thing from second to third, though this time I was ready.
I granny-drove the car after that and wrote to Anthony at LMS expaining my situation. He was fast with a reply. Check transmission fluid level, wait 15 minutes for the car to warm up before WOT runs, install two more different tunes to see which one works better.
I ordered stock plugs and gapped them to a perfect .031". Checked the tranny fluid, which was on the 'min' level and added 16 ounces. Then, after verifying that 16 took it to 'max' on the dipstick, I added 16 more ounces to overfill per Anthony's instructions. One quart total added. I then put in the newly revised v-11 tune Anthony sent, LMS 93 PERF v11 3BAR and drove normally for two weeks. Lots of throttle on the up ramp, but no wot. Then I began WOT tests. Mostly, the car pulled hard and shifted okay. But on one try, completely warmed up, it happened again. Red tach needle and no shift. More like it went into neutral.
Took out LMS 93 PERF v11 3BAR, and installed LMS 93v11 SHIFT 3BAR, drove aggresively but no WOT for two weeks. It's better, but last week on the ramp fully warmed up, tach needle turned red, rev limiter kicked in, but it did shift.
Just had back surgery, so I'm off the road, which brings my story up to today.
One thing I have learned in my career is to never let the customer do my trials when I think I have a fix in place. Recurring issues could easily get me fired. I've been doing this over eight years so I know how it's done.
My fear is Anthony isn't quite to a solution and is collecting data using his customers feedback. I know if I believe I've solved a customer issue, I HAVE to bring data or my credibility goes down the toilet. Saying someone is working on something should never mean they are using customer feedback to generate solution data. Motors can break, and people in the warranty dept are very smart.
My plan when I get back to driving is to go back to the stock tune, cause I don't want my baby to break. She's the best car I ever owned. I'm watching with interest Omahahn's progress with the gearhead tune, as I may follow suit. Or, I may ask Anthony to give me the v-10 back. I'm writing this to help omahahn in his quest, as I share that.
Hope this helps. I feel like this forum is family.

Great write-up! Make sure you also follow the other thread here titled, "LMS 3 bar V11 bounces off rev limiter." This other thread is all about the shifting issues also. Sorry but I had to laugh at your comment about the rev limiter pulsating to keep the motor in the car! Ha!
Anyway, I'll definitely keep this thread updated as I go.

 

[BweegN]

Great write-up! Make sure you also follow the other thread here titled, "LMS 3 bar V11 bounces off rev limiter." This other thread is all about the shifting issues also. Sorry but I had to laugh at your comment about the rev limiter pulsating to keep the motor in the car! Ha!
Anyway, I'll definitely keep this thread updated as I go.

FINALLY someone explained it how I've been trying to but just couldn't pull the story line out of my dome piece LOL. Thank you

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Everyone having this issue should reach out to us for the new adjustment we have for this, shoot us a pm or shoot us a phone call we will need:
-first and last name
-year of the vehicle
-serial number of tuner (located on box or back of device)
-specific gear this is happening in
Once you provide us with this we will go ahead and send you an update to download that will fix this issue

 

[shoblock]

Everyone having this issue should reach out to us for the new adjustment we have for this, shoot us a pm or shoot us a phone call we will need:
-first and last name
-year of the vehicle
-serial number of tuner (located on box or back of device)
-specific gear this is happening in
Once you provide us with this we will go ahead and send you an update to download that will fix this issue

I'm planning to, Anthony. Right now I can't drive due to back surgery and will write to you when ready. Do you collect test data from the different tune revisions? A 30 piece sample is the accepted norm for the ability to declare "we have the new adjustment for this". How was the adjustment obtained? Was it feedback from customers? Do you have a car that you use for trials? Is there any manufacturer input? After three failed V11 attempts with my car. I do not want to receive a 'best guess' for my next trial. Again do not use your customer to gain knowledge.
I will need more assurance using a reliable troubleshooting methodoligy. What is your confidence level with this new update?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Anthony loads the files but he is not the calibrator, I usually deal with these forums since i own the same car, my name is Cody. We are doing what we can on the calibration side but there are still mechanical limitations with these vehicles that people do not understand, if you could get me a video showing me exactly what rpm this is happening at it would be alot easier to diagnose because some cars do not actually hit the limiter and just make it to higher rpms and then missfire because of lack of fuel pressure that is why videos are important to see if we can distinguish between the two. Also is this issue occurring in the summer time as well or strictly winter because that points more fingers towards the lack of fuel pressure side than anything else, there are alot of unknowns when people have an issue with a car, also just because the issue sounds like someone elses problem it can be something else entirely. If it is actually a rev limiter concern my confidence is high with the new tune fixing it based on the changes we made to what rpm the limiter is set to as well as fuel pressure adjustments and shift point adjustments. Otherwise there could be another problem causing these vehicles to act up that we can not just go off of someone explaining it verbally and we need to see it

 

[shoblock]

Anthony loads the files but he is not the calibrator, I usually deal with these forums since i own the same car, my name is Cody. We are doing what we can on the calibration side but there are still mechanical limitations with these vehicles that people do not understand, if you could get me a video showing me exactly what rpm this is happening at it would be alot easier to diagnose because some cars do not actually hit the limiter and just make it to higher rpms and then missfire because of lack of fuel pressure that is why videos are important to see if we can distinguish between the two. Also is this issue occurring in the summer time as well or strictly winter because that points more fingers towards the lack of fuel pressure side than anything else, there are alot of unknowns when people have an issue with a car, also just because the issue sounds like someone elses problem it can be something else entirely. If it is actually a rev limiter concern my confidence is high with the new tune fixing it based on the changes we made to what rpm the limiter is set to as well as fuel pressure adjustments and shift point adjustments. Otherwise there could be another problem causing these vehicles to act up that we can not just go off of someone explaining it verbally and we need to see it

Understood. I have a problem with creating a video of the issue. No two failed shifts are exactly alike. Again, do not use the customer to gather knowledge. If the motor fails due to misfire or over-rev, I will be paying the bill to replace it. When I write in, I will ask for the new tune, as well as a replacement V10 exactly like my old one. If the new one fails, I will go back to v10, and go away happily. The V10 took over a half a second off my ET and increased my gas mileage by almost 10%. That is a bargain, and I don't want to think about temperature or adequate fuel pressure or any other contributing factor when it's time to smoke a pesky Subaru. The new tune either works or it doesn't. I NEVER had problem until I installed the V11's. Maybe my car is maxed out at v10, and I'm okay with that.
Respectfully,
Shoblock

 

[SHOdded]

Hope you get to 100% soon, shoblock!