Leather Die?

[James Downing]

I have been wanting to work with my seats and do a two tone look. Black bolsters, and black on the sides of the bottom of the seat. I honestly have not been able to look for products, as I am stuck here at school most of the time. Any thoughts on how to die the leather?

Ive also been wanting the seats embroidered in the center with the SHO logo, and maybe my signature below. But thats another day.

 

[luigisho]

I'm not sure how good a look one might achieve with trying to dye a partial section of a preassembled cover. You might want to think about removing the seatcover and replacing the sections you wish to change with already colored leather inserts.

 

[Dave Ladely]

Leather dye

In school? Teach spelling?
Anyway, there is dyeing and there is spraying a vinyl coating on leather.
Dyeing is the best by far as it allows the leather to breath. Factory SHOs have vinyl coated seats. So use good paint remover to take that off. Then choose a good leather dye to match your original. Forget two toning unless you take the panels apart and dye them separately. Dont buy panels as they are spray painted and so seal off the leather from breathing and from any leather conditioner. Only very expensive leather is dyed , most is spray coated with a paint so as to have a very uniform, but unnatural, look. Its cheap. Your best furniture is dyed. Rolls Royce seats are dyed. They get their leather from cows that were raised without barbed wire fences, so that the leather is not marred. few people are aware of the difference between dyed leather and plastic coated leather. Even though they can't see the real leather under that coating, they still think its dyed! Oh well. Manufacturers count on that.

 

[sideSHO]

Get with Jelloslug on this.
He has done this with awesome results.
I'm surprised he has'nt seen this.

 

[ericglo]

Where to begin?

First up is James. If you want to recoat your seats, you should use a real leather coating. Go to lrtfinish.com or refinishcoatings.com. If you want to do a two tone, it will be more difficult. You will need to tape each section before spraying. After that, each web site will tell you how to use there products. For best results, you will need either a spray gun or an air brush. I am not sure about the embroidery. Do a google search or call an upholstery shop.

Second up is Dave. Where did you get your information? THE LEATHER IS NOT VINYL COATED. It is a leather coating. The coating is specifically formulated for leather. Yes, unfinished leather will usually have fewer blemishes. That doesn't mean it is any better. A finished leather will stand up to wear and tear better than an unfinished leather. Auto manufacturers demand that the leather in your car pass tests for durability, fade resistance, etc. Ask a furniture manufacturer for any sort of spec on there leather and you will get nothing but silence. Also, some finished leathers are difficult to distinguish from unfinished leathers. Dave read some of my other posts, I think I have covered some other leather topics as well.

Ericglo

 

[Dave Ladely]

Leather die [sic: dye]

What is "leather coating" by your definition? The implication is that the coating is made of leather, ground up, and used as a coating. I realize that is ridiculous, but what else can be inferred? Is it a magical coating just for leather, made of secret natural leather ingredients?
No. "Leather coating" is a type of PAINT , a relative of vinyl, similar to lapplying liquid vinyl. Yes, it can sometimes be a close match to leather . It is less expensive to coat leather with a coating that may match leather colors or not, than to get real good leather. Rolls Royce, to my knowledge doe NOT use coated leather except maybe for lighter colors than available in leather. I do know that they use leather from cows that have not been near barbed wire as they dont want the marks which dyes would not hide but which coatings would hide. Cheap furniture leather has imperfections, so they just spray the leather with a plastic derived coating to get uniformity and fail to tell the customer that the coating is on top of the leather, hides the leather, and seals the leather almost completely.
None of these factory coatings allow leather to do much "breathing" and allows much less conditioners through, since conditioners have much larger molecules than air, and that is one reason why upholstery so coated tends to crack. Ever seen those British MG seats after a few years? How about old Cadillac seats, etc.? All of these coatings are based on synthetic ingredients, such as acrylics, and act as SEALERS. Yes, they also seal against dirt. And yes, ,they do provide a wear layer as they obviously provide a layer of "plastic" on top of the real leather. But all are opaque, whether they mimic real leather color or are non leather colors like white. Can anyone eally see the real leather through an opaque coating or do they mistake the fake colored sealer coating for real leather? Hello, Superman!
Lots of furniture dealers do not like to admit their leather is coated with a type of plastic paint that seals the leather from conditioners and impedes "beathing". But most dealers who do sell high quality leather furniture can take you from their cheap coated stuff over to their best stuff, and show you the difference between coated and dyed. I believe most are analine dyed. You can really see the actual leather, then go over to the cheap coated stuff, and try. Good luck.
That is why I call coated leather "imitation naugahyde", just to bug cheap furniture dealers who try tell me that it is real natural leather. Yes, the base is leather, but the top coating is similar to the old naugahyde. Do I want the leather "protected" by a coating that seals off the leather and provides an opaque "wear" layer? No. Smooth is pretty tough, ages well when cared for and lasts a LONG time. Sealed coated leather wears awhile, then the coating wears off, showing real lleather of a different color underneath, and cracks. I just worked on some VERY expensive leather seats in a VERY expensive Class A motorhome. The tan coating was wearing off, showing a slightly lighter leather underneath which was dried out and had been suffocated. I was able to rescue them for the most part. I have worked with leather for over 40 years, from clothes to upholstery to saddles. I worked for Fiebings Leather Dye Company for 10 years back in the early 1960s.
So, go ahead and verify what I say, go to a good furniture store and really check. on their coated vs. dyed leather furniture and ask them which lasts longer, something with a "coating" of a type of plastic paint, ask about cracking,, etc, and then about the lasting of their quality dyed leather when kept clean and conditioned. Ever see a saddle coated? They are dyed or left natural.

 

[ericglo]

Dave, I am not going to argue with you because I really don't care. With a resume like Fiebings, how can I?

Is a leather coating a paint? yes it is. There is an easy way for people to understand the difference between unfinished and finished leather. It is like staining wood and painting wood. Painting gives you a layer between you and the leather. Just because there is a layer doesn't make it bad.
Where do you find your info on the coatings being nothing more than plastic? Maybe working for the Yugo of the leather industry. Stahl, Rohm and Haas, Quaker Color and Bayer would probably take issue with your accusation. I have myself and know people who work on and with furniture. It is not always cut and dried what is unfinished(aniline or semi-aniline) and finished. There has been a little progress in the last forty years.
Do you know how leather is processed. I have been to a finishing plant. All leather is processed the same way. It is towards the end of the line when they are split off between finished and unfinished.
Finally, I don't need to go to the store. I know people at the tanneries, the chemical companies and the furniture manufacturers. So why would I waste my time when I know more than most store owners and there staff.

Ericglo
P.S. - Don't criticize someone's spelling before checking your own.

 

[ericglo]

Sorry James about getting off topic.

Check out LRT and Refinish Coatings. If you take your time, then you should achieve good results.
Also, if you have the money, then you might want to replace the leather seat covers.

Ericglo

 

[jelloslug]

Go to www.leatherique.com . They have great info on the leather dying process, how most car leather is not really dyed but rather painted (you cannot peal dye off leather) and how to prep leather to be redyed. Most leather is painted with a laquer or polymer based paint to give it a uniform color and feel. That is the main problem with the SHO leather, it cannot breath. Compound that with cheap, silicon based "cleaning" products and it will dry out and crack in no time at all.

 

[ericglo]

Jelloslug, have you read any of my posts?

I am sure you have achieved good results with Leathirique. I do have a problem with some of your(there) information. Again is leather painted(coated)? YES! Does that make it bad? No! The coatings today are mostly water based due to regulations that began in the 80's.
On this issue of breathing, I made some phone calls to get some info on that topic. In the old days of laquer and solvent, the coating would become hard and brittle. They(tanneries and chemical companies) thought that if the leather could breath it wouldn't do that. This is why some seats had perforated leather. The trouble was that it was the coating along with dirt and body oils that was the weak link. No amount of breathing is going to save a leather with a old coating.
On cleaning, if you get the dirt and oils out of the leather it should keep it flexible and clean.

 

[jelloslug]

I read your posts, I have also read up from many others. I would not consider myself an expert but I do know quite a bit. There stuff works very well, and there info, for the most part, is good. One thing to remember is that they are selling stuff, so anything they say bad about other process or dyes should be taken with a grain of salt. There oil actually will penatrate even very dried out leather and the cleaning solution "lifts" the crud out of the leather. I like to use it on other peoples "clean" leather and show them just how dirty it is. There dye works well and is water based but unless you spray it it does not have the nice "natural" look.

 

[ericglo]

Hey Jelloslug,

I hope I didn't offend you with my post. I know I can sometimes be abbrasive. I have personally never tried Leatherique, so my comments on them have to be taken into context. One thing I will say is if there coating was so good, then why isn't it used by the tanneries. That is a much more lucrative market.
I stated before that I need to write about the leather industry. I will try to do so in leather sticky post. Someone wanted to proof read my post before submiting. I just don't have the patience and he will have to deal with it. So, I will try to write that soon.

Ericglo

 

[jelloslug]

It's all good . There system is geared more for the DIY restoration guys, rather than a factory production system. It may not be the best way to do it but for you average Joe you can get great results. Another thing I have noticed is just because a large company does it in mass production it does not mean it the best way to do it. From what I have read the coating process came about because car manufactureres were demanding more uniform coloring and texture. I would rather have a good dyed leather that is slightly missmatched in color or texture than somthing that looks good for a year or two. Cars anymore seem to be built to look good for 3 years or so

 

[ericglo]

Jelloslug,

There are a bunch of people selling stuff for the mobile tech and diy guys. My problem with Leatherique is that there product is so expensive. LRT sells prematch for 35 dollars a quart. Refinish Coatings is 40 dollars a quart. Recon Products is between 17 and 26 dollars a quart. Now, Leatherique is 89 dollars a quart. Stainsafe(Leathermaster) is equally as high. If you aren't offering anything special or different from the competition, then the price is inflated. These two companies may have something unique, but not that great for the price.

 

[jelloslug]

I bought a kit from them for $100 that came with 16 oz of cleaner, 16 oz of oil, 16 oz of dye remover, and 16 oz of color matched dye. There individual prices are high but in a kit it's not bad at all.