Keep blowing out spark

[Sho Amo]

From a short search, I think I need an MSD DIS-4. I really need to study our system in order to really understand whats going on here, which I dont really have the time for.

I would like to figure this out without using MegaSquirt. I could get an MSD box here and wired in before the convention but MS is a different story.

 

[Sho Amo]

Coil on plugs assembled with stock type coils ussually dont create as hot of a spark as a stock dsm coil. The advantage of them is less travel distance and resistance for the electricity to travel. The advantage to this is quicker throttle response. Most times you need to use some kind of ignition amplifier to keep the spark from being blown out by the boost pressures.

From DSMtalk

 

[AREA 91]

Explain to me again why one would want a COPS setup on a boosted car? I have one coming, but if this /\ /\ is a problem I will pass, as I have never had any issues with the stock setup.

My stock ignition system on my turbo car was also pretty trouble free. It took playing with a few different plugs to find one I really liked though.

I'll stick with my old reliable more than enough zap stock ignition system.

Not trying to be a "Debbie Downer", but the "Heavy Hitters" of the SHO world use the stock setup.

******** Fire suit on!

 

[whiteguy3]

^ I saw the same thing. Some guys were using ignition amplifiers on their higher boost DSM's. I don't think there will be a need in your case simply because your issue is not consistent. Sometimes it pulls and sometimes it blows out. Leading me to believe with some tweaking it would be cured.

I understand some of those guys do. Were tying to make it work on our setups. His car has gone 12's with COP so we know it works.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Coil on plugs assembled with stock type coils ussually dont create as hot of a spark as a stock dsm coil. The advantage of them is less travel distance and resistance for the electricity to travel. The advantage to this is quicker throttle response. Most times you need to use some kind of ignition amplifier to keep the spark from being blown out by the boost pressures.

From DSMtalk

This is sort of a non-issue when you're referring to computer controlled ignition timing. On a heavily modded car, you're going to be adjusting this based on car response anyway.

 

[Sho Amo]

I'll stick with my old reliable more than enough zap stock ignition system.

Not trying to be a "Debbie Downer", but the "Heavy Hitters" of the SHO world use the stock setup.

******** Fire suit on!

Well now Im a "heavy hitter" and im running COP, HA!

3rd fastest recorded



Ive got an idea Id like to post up, give me a short bit.
Edit: Excuse the sloppyness, had my daughter yelling in my ear lol.

 

[SHOtime2511]

I'm still running stock coils also.
I have heard mixed reviews about COP.

 

[92sho16]

Wasnt there a mention in a previous thread somewhere about running coils in parrallel instead of series ? Looks like that was what your drawing is. A parrallel setup should solve the added impedance and since the DIS limits current we shouldnt have to worry about to little impedance.



Btw i would run the stock setup but for me its a space issue/ looks issue. I would have to relocate the coil because of space issues with my firewall so it would look ugly anywhere else.

 

[Sho Amo]

I will try this on Sunday and let you all know how it turns out.

Hopefully it doesn't all blow up!

 

[intimdatr]

IF you can find one for a price that isnt insane i recommend you purchase this http://www.amazon.com/Ford-Injection-Electronic-Engine-Control/dp/0837603013

it will teach you almost everything you all need to know about the wiring and setup of EEC IV cars including the SHO. prolly one the best damn books EVER made for cars. and no i wont give mine up

it may not tell you much about COP's but it should help you understand the PIP signals and DIS module and its limiting factors. and it may tell you also tell you everything about you ever need to know about any EEC-IV car from 88 to 93 from wiring to tuning.

 

[whiteguy3]

We have that book. We use it very often. There's some great info to be learned and referenced in there.

 

[intimdatr]

We have that book. We use it very often. There's some great info to be learned and referenced in there.

Good to hear! Just checking :wave:

And on the running COP's in parallel wouldn't you be raising the impedance rather than lowering it? granted it would most likely be rather small differences. i would think if you running something that is used that often you would want it wired in series to prevent wear/failure. and at the wont for optimal voltage a series is gonna produce the best results compared to something that is going to want to be equal and even across the bored i.e. a parallel setup.

 

[92sho16]

Good to hear! Just checking :wave:

And on the running COP's in parallel wouldn't you be raising the impedance rather than lowering it? granted it would most likely be rather small differences. i would think if you running something that is used that often you would want it wired in series to prevent wear/failure. and at the wont for optimal voltage a series is gonna produce the best results compared to something that is going to want to be equal and even across the bored i.e. a parallel setup.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_15/4.html , Running COP is series would do absolutely nothing in terms of wear compared to singular unit. As it was pointed out the current is cut down by connecting them is series. Only increasing the current passed the rated value would possibly cause wear.

 

[SHOZ123]

Another thing to consider if you have modded to the cops is to make sure your voltage going to them is as high as the alternator output voltage.

 

[intimdatr]

How would wiring them as a parallel lower the current? Doesn't a series allow for the best transfer of voltage to COP's? Or at least this was what Ive always been taught but then again i never had dealt with the added factor the DIS.
not attempting to argue just asking a few question to see if i can input anything.


Edit: Did some reading and im starting to understand, i forgot some stuff for a few years back when i knew all of this... Sorry for being an idiot!

 

[Sho Amo]

Naah man its all good. We're all here to learn. Im working on something good. You guys will like this.

 

[Sho Amo]

Okay, tried the parallel wiring and it wont start. Im going to go over my wiring tomorrow to make sure I didnt goof something up. If its all good and just not working Ill go to option 3.

 

[1slickRED89]

IIRC, some of the TX guys had them falling/blowing apart in the cylinders. I had Iridiums until I read about their issues and then switched to below. The thread should still be here and several made the switch back to copper.

most SP makers use a ~95% alumina 5% glass mixture for the ceramic (the white parts) of a spark plug. the alumina give the electrical and thermal properties and the glass holds it all together, like glue or fiberglass strands in composites. Autolites' use ~88% AL2O3 and 12% glass, which is one reason they hold up better when there is thermal shock in boosted engines. then run them in top fuel cars for a reason.

Also the available voltage is about 46,000 volts for the OEM DIS coil pack and not more than 32,000 volts for a COP, lower voltage means that the spark never happens, not that it blows out. COP is cheaper, not better I think. maximum ignition power would be homemade solid-core wires, and non-resistor plugs with the stock coil.

 

[intimdatr]

Also the available voltage is about 46,000 volts for the OEM DIS coil pack and not more than 32,000 volts for a COP, lower voltage means that the spark never happens, not that it blows out. COP is cheaper, not better I think. maximum ignition power would be homemade solid-core wires, and non-resistor plugs with the stock coil.

Most stock system only produce about 36,000 volts, BUT an MSD coil from the v6 mustangs with a slight modification(moving the pins) to the connector will fit which produce a solid 46,000 volts.

But yes agreed that i havent heard COP's producing that much power, although ive haven't really been around COP's that much yet.

 

[intimdatr]

Also on the wiring them in parallel does the DIS produce enough power to charge a set of COP's linked in parallel?