I have a meth problem

[Ecoboost_xsport]

What goes through my mind when I look at that View attachment 12866

Off topic: I feel you on this. It's currently how I feel with the actual factory PWM fuel systems. I've got the XDI HPFP-60, about to install their 50% injectors and also the in-tank DW300c. On an E85 tune, it's still not enough of an in-tank fuel pump to deliver what it needs, so I have been struggling with trying to design a fuel system that will work well.

Sure I could go old-school and just change to a traditional fuel pressure regulated return style system, but it just doesn't seem right, not to mention, I'm not sure how the PCM would play with a setup like that. I'm going to go the surge tank route, but since the factory uses a return-less PWM method for fuel delivery, I'd really like to retain that capability and have been mapping out plumbing and wiring (at least trying) for a Radium Engineering PWM surge tank setup with dual Walbro 450s using Solid State Relays as I'm not sure the factory fuel pump control module can drive those dual walbros. I'm a little out of my depth and am doing all the research I can on fuel systems to see if this is feasible. I just ran across a guy online yesterday who has a GTR with this exact setup and, although it is a different platform, may be able point me in the right direction if I can pick his brain a bit.

So yeah...right now, I feel like that meme when I get explained some of this fuel system stuff, lol.

 

[802SHO]

Off topic: I feel you on this. It's currently how I feel with the actual factory PWM fuel system. I've got the XDI HPFP-60, about to install their 50% injectors and also the in-tank DW300c. On an E85 tune, it's still not enough of an in-tank fuel pump to deliver what it needs, so I have been struggling with trying to design a fuel system that will work well.

Sure I could go old-school and just change to a traditional fuel pressure regulated return style system, but it just doesn't seem right, not to mention, I'm not sure how the PCM would play with a setup like that. I'm going to go the surge tank route, but since the factory uses a return-less PWM method for fuel delivery, I'd really like to retain that capability and have been mapping out plumbing and wiring (at least trying) for a Radium Engineering PWM surge tank setup with dual Walbro 450s using Solid State Relays. I'm a little out of my depth and am doing all the research I can on fuel systems to see if this is feasible. I just ran across a guy online yesterday who has a GTR with this exact setup and, although it is a different platform, may be able point me in the right direction if I can pick his brain a bit.

So yeah...right now, I feel like that meme when I get explained some of this fuel system stuff, lol.

You gotta share some of your build at some point in the appropriate threads of course. Really cool

 

[802SHO]

You gotta share some of your build at some point in the appropriate threads of course. Really cool

Wait maybe on EcoboostPerformanceForum.

 

[luigisho]

Keep updating on this fuel system conumdrum. Interesting stuff. What does the boosted mustang crowd use?

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

Keep updating on this fuel system conumdrum. Interesting stuff. What does the boosted mustang crowd use?

Will do. I'm still in the crawl phase at the moment, so nothing significant to report just yet. But I have been keeping my ear more toward the Raptor crowd for their solutions. However, them as well as the mustang crowd have better and larger in-tank solutions that aren't equivalent to our platform, strictly from a "bolt-on" perspective. Their fuel hangers are more conducive to larger drop-in pumps than ours. BUT, even the guys running high output raptors seem to be sticking with the old-school return line-conversion setup. And to be fair, I'm not ruling this option out as it has been proven to work, I just don't think it's a "true" solution since I feel like it's a case of going backwards in the technology department. And I still haven't gotten clear answers on how their PCMs are seeing those setups from a daily driver perspective. Our fuel pressure is regulated via the pump itself using input from many sensor locations throughout the vehicle with over-pressure being relieved by a Pressure Relief Valve in the fuel hanger assembly itself. With the traditional return-style lines, pressure is regulated on the return side via a pressure regulator with vacuum/boost being the only reference. it has inherent drawbacks as well. Since it's "best" to return fuel after the fuel rail, that leaves hot fuel returning to the tank, which kinda sucks. But more importantly, we have GDI systems, with rail pressures above 2000psi and with the XDI pump, close to twice that at WOT. I haven't seen a system "return" fuel from these high pressure sides. So, you could just make a short return "loop" right at the pump/hanger itself, which is an option, but still leaves me thinking about the drawbacks of only having vacuum/boost as a reference and how that compares to all the inputs the factory fuel pump control module sees. I feel like its just throwing all that data out the window.

Apologies to the OP, I feel like I took this convo off the rails a bit. I love having these discussions so feel free to DM me and I'll post some info up when I get a closer solution.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Off topic: I feel you on this. It's currently how I feel with the actual factory PWM fuel systems. I've got the XDI HPFP-60, about to install their 50% injectors and also the in-tank DW300c. On an E85 tune, it's still not enough of an in-tank fuel pump to deliver what it needs, so I have been struggling with trying to design a fuel system that will work well.

Sure I could go old-school and just change to a traditional fuel pressure regulated return style system, but it just doesn't seem right, not to mention, I'm not sure how the PCM would play with a setup like that. I'm going to go the surge tank route, but since the factory uses a return-less PWM method for fuel delivery, I'd really like to retain that capability and have been mapping out plumbing and wiring (at least trying) for a Radium Engineering PWM surge tank setup with dual Walbro 450s using Solid State Relays as I'm not sure the factory fuel pump control module can drive those dual walbros. I'm a little out of my depth and am doing all the research I can on fuel systems to see if this is feasible. I just ran across a guy online yesterday who has a GTR with this exact setup and, although it is a different platform, may be able point me in the right direction if I can pick his brain a bit.

So yeah...right now, I feel like that meme when I get explained some of this fuel system stuff, lol.

Do you have upgraded turbos? What's your mod list that makes you think the DW300C cant support e85?

 

[SM105K]

After reading this, I am super happy my 2J car is on E85. Lol.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

Do you have upgraded turbos? What's your mod list that makes you think the DW300C cant support e85?

Yes, I have the ATP turbo's as well. My initial "awakening" to the fuel problem was during a convo I had with Matt at GH. According to him, they found that with the DW300c and the XDI-35, they were barely able to keep up with the fuel demand. With the XDI-60, that issue is exacerbated and add on that the upgraded injectors, the problem compounds itself. Upon speaking with my engine builder, he concurred this information. But just think about the raw numbers: The DW300c flows 340lph at about 40psi, according to the their info. These ecoboosts operate (very ballpark number) in the 40-60psi range, maybe even higher. That drops the number to, potentially, below 290lph. High output engines on e85 need WAY more fuel than that to keep from starving out. Do I have a dyno result or testing to confirm this, no...but my intuition tells me fuel delivery will be a problem when I get to where I'm going, so I'm trying to address it early on. Plus...you can never have too much fuel capability, LOL.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Yes, I have the ATP turbo's as well. My initial "awakening" to the fuel problem was with a convo I had with Matt at GH. According to him, they found that with the DW300c and the XDI-35, they were barely able to keep up with the fuel demand. With the XDI-60, that issue is exacerbated and add on that the upgraded injectors, the problem compounds itself. Upon speaking with my engine builder, he concurred this information. But just think about the raw numbers: The DW300c flows 340lph at about 40psi, according to the their info. These ecoboosts operated (very ballpark number) in the 40-60psi range, maybe even higher. That drops the number to, potentially, below 290lph. High output engines on e85 need WAY more fuel than that to keep from starving out. Do I have a dyno result or testing to confirm this, no...but my intuition tells me fuel delivery will be a problem when I get to where I'm going, so I'm trying to address it early on. Plus...you can never have too much fuel capability, LOL.

that's all I wanted to confirm haha, we have quite a few running e85 with stock turbos so was just curious.

 

[skyshadow07]

Interested

 

[skyshadow07]

Devil's Own has nozzles and other accessories in stock right now.. (May 30th)

 

[skyshadow07]

So I upgraded from the 300cc nozzle from Devil's Own to the 700cc and WOW! I'm breaking traction on a 10-15mph rolling hit on 275 Pirelli P-Zeros. I was not having that 'problem' before. It's only a quick chirp but still, wow.

 

[802SHO]

So I upgraded from the 300cc nozzle from Devil's Own to the 700cc and WOW! I'm breaking traction on a 10-15mph rolling hit on 275 Pirelli P-Zeros. I was not having that 'problem' before. It's only a quick chirp but still, wow.

Hahaha Yes Sir! Sounds like a win win! I love it!

 

[skyshadow07]

If you ever buy from Devil's Own, they send you stuff like this...


I feel like only Jordan would have the balls to put that on his car.

 

[Jordan_R]

If you ever buy from Devil's Own, they send you stuff like this... View attachment 14052


I feel like only Jordan would have the balls to put that on his car.

Lol, I don't put much for stickers on my car. Unless it's a sponsorship

 

[skyshadow07]

I'm the same. One of my best friends owns a detail and vinyl shop. He is wrapping my car, as soon as the hood is painted, and I told him I would allow an embossed decal at most.

 

[802SHO]

I recently covered my cabinets in the garage with my stickers I never used from parts. Don't know why I didn't do that a long time ago.

 

[skyshadow07]

I don't think a sticker saying "I love Meth" os even toolbox worthy

 

[802SHO]

I don't think a sticker saying "I love Meth" os even toolbox worthy

Correct, on the back bumper would be the ideal spot

 

[luigisho]

Or maybe embossed on this years family Christmas cards.