Help with ATX

[Mark in PDX]

Help!

I had a local rebuilder rebuild an ATX for me. Had a shop put the ATX in my car since I don't have time and the atx in my 93 was going. The 'rebuilt' transmission won't shift out of 1st.

Anyone have a clue what might be wrong? I left a message for the guy who rebuilt the transmission for me. He is reputable, I just got the message too late to catch him.

Is this a huge deal, or is there something easy like a bad vss or something that might cause this?
Ideas? Help!
Mark

 

[mccrash]

inside the trans there are 3 shafts.one with 1-4.one 5 and one final gear.theres a round like thing on the 1-4 shaft that lets the shaft up and left to right to change gears.theres a bolt that goes in a groove on that thing the bolt screws in the trans i dont know where.look for a bolt hole on the trans thats not there.u cant miss it cause the fuild will leak out where it goes.

 

[rick-ng]

Help!

I had a local rebuilder rebuild an ATX for me. Had a shop put the ATX in my car since I don't have time and the atx in my 93 was going. The 'rebuilt' transmission won't shift out of 1st.

Anyone have a clue what might be wrong? I left a message for the guy who rebuilt the transmission for me. He is reputable, I just got the message too late to catch him.

Is this a huge deal, or is there something easy like a bad vss or something that might cause this?
Ideas? Help!
Mark

Its sounds like you have a bad speed sensor,or a bad TPS.
It would be worth a shot
I know that it causes the same syptoms on the SLOs
-Rick

 

[JrodSVT]

Bad TPS should set a light however a Bad VSS is a little harder to diagnose.

Does the TwECCer allow you to watch parameters or datalog?

 

[Mark in PDX]

I will check out the VSS.. tomorrow... My rebuilder said to check that too, since the atx was out of the car, he couldn't do a drive test, so we'll see.

 

[Mark in PDX]

I called the shop and they gave me, the speedo wouldn't work if the VSS was out... Now I am worried, but I wasn't talking to the tech, but the 'underwriter'...
If it isn't a sensor, what would cause this? They said that 'manually shifting the gear lever didn't cause it to change.. They also said that pushing it up in speed didn't cause it to change.. Said something about there are 3 ways for it to shift, by pressure, by signal and something else... is this guy blowing smoke at me?
I need some advise before I just go get my car and take it elsewhere....sigh

 

[projectSHO89]

inside the trans there are 3 shafts.one with 1-4.one 5 and one final gear.theres a round like thing on the 1-4 shaft that lets the shaft up and left to right to change gears.theres a bolt that goes in a groove on that thing the bolt screws in the trans i dont know where.look for a bolt hole on the trans thats not there.u cant miss it cause the fuild will leak out where it goes.

Uh, he has an AUTOMATIC, not a manual.......

Mark,

Put it manual 2nd. This forces 2nd gear only. If it's still stuck in 1st, there is something done wrong internally with the tranny.

The speedometer is driven by a mechanical cable off the VSS. A check of the speedometer's operation will only verify operation of the mechanical portion of the VSS. The other half of the VSS is electrical. Its signal goes to the cruise module (non-ISVC vehicles) and to the PCM for, among other things, shift scheduling.

Steve

 

[rick-ng]

Uh, he has an AUTOMATIC, not a manual.......

Mark,

Put it manual 2nd. This forces 2nd gear only. If it's still stuck in 1st, there is something done wrong internally with the tranny.

The speedometer is driven by a mechanical cable off the VSS. A check of the speedometer's operation will only verify operation of the mechanical portion of the VSS. The other half of the VSS is electrical. Its signal goes to the cruise module (non-ISVC vehicles) and to the PCM for, among other things, shift scheduling.

Steve

Exactly!! somtimes the wire can also short out from the heat from the exhuast,if the insulation is missing
-Rick

 

[St Louis SHO]

umm, your tranny guy is not very bright. The speedo WILL work if the VSS is bad, the vss has a cable, and a plug in. When I did mine, i didnt fully seat the connector at the vss. Driving down the highway at 60, them DOWNSHIFT! right into first..... I'd look at that first. If the VSS is bad (I replaced mine) Youll have to pull the rear exhaust manifold to replace it, not very very hard, but dont break the EGR tube like I did....

 

[Mark in PDX]

Well they swapped the VSS for me. No change in how the tranny didn't work. I am going to pick the car up tomorrow and drive it home (back roads very slowly in 1st I guess)...
Then I'll talk to MY transmission guy and see what he says.. They backed out of hooking it up to the 'zoom' box on me and said that based in the fact that putting it in 2nd wouldn't put it in 2nd, that they don't think it is electrical, so it must be mechanical.. So the tranny guy must have screwed up or something is wrong inside, so I have no diagnosis.
Any other ideas on what would cause it to work in p,r,n, & 1st? But not shift up to 2nd/3/4th?
Mark

 

[Mark in PDX]

More information- I drove it home and it has the following symptoms-
1) it does shift into 2nd! Won't go higher. I drove it home at 25mph at 3500rpm.. I could feel it go into 2nd... When I decelerated, it would surge and **** as it slowed down... like a slipping clutch.. very strange.. when stopped, i could feel a small **** as it finally dropped into 1st...
2) has a whirrr - pause- whirrr-pause noise comming from the transmission when in gear
3) When you put it into D, it really slams it home.. or 1 or whatver from N- it won't move when you move it to 2 or D again..
OD lockout doesn't effect anything.

I haven't pulled the codes yet. Just got home. That will be my next task.
But this means my rebuilder missed something didn't he? My guess is something in the valve body or the pressure system...
sigh
mark

 

[Mark in PDX]

Ok- I pulled these codes:

Koeo- 641,624
641 (O) Transmission solenoid/circuit failure Shift Solenoid 3 - Transmissions
624 (O,M) Solenoid/circuit failure -Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) current is high - Transmissions

koer- (some of these are from the lack of me doing any of the 'goosing & such- 129,167,225,632
So no real codes except the MAF there.

So does this help?

 

[Mark in PDX]

Anyone?

 

[SHOgirl20]

Sounds like u need a new transmission

 

[projectSHO89]

Sounds like the rebuilder swapped the EPC solenoid connector with the SS3 solenoid connector.

Don't ask me how I know THAT one.

The SS and EPC solenoids have coils of different resistances. Coil resistance can be checked with a meter from the top of the tranny with minimal disassembly (airtube, etc).

If the solenoid connectors are swapped, the readings will make it obvious.

If you need diagrams or exact pinout and reistance data, let me know.

Steve

 

[Mark in PDX]

Heck yeah!! I have the car sitting in my driveway looking very forlorn and have been trying to figure out what my next step was, as my rebuilder isn't setup to have the car in his garage.. He is an 'out of car' rebuilder.. and I just don't have time during this season (I work retail) to do it myself...
PM me so I can get this info.. I have some time this weekend depending on how involved the tear apart is to get to the test points.
Mark

 

[projectSHO89]

Refer to the following excerpts of the 94 AX4S shop manual for the pinout of the connector. It is located on the top of the transmission housing, under the intake air tube. Minimal disassembly is needed to get to the connector.

Shift solenoids 1 thru 3 should exhibit a static resistance of between 15-25 ohms between the SSx pin and the VPWR pin.

The TCC solenoid coil should be between .98 and 1.6 ohms between the TCC pin and the VPWR pin.

The EPC solenoid coil should be between 3.23 to 5.5 ohms between the EPC pin and the VPWR pin.

If your readings indicate that two or more solenoids have a reading that should correspond to a different solenoid's, it is likely that the connectors were swapped during the rebuild. If so, it is necesary to pull the side pan (can be done in-vehicle but takes a lot of work) and restore the connectors to the proper locations.

Attached are two relative .pdf files. Adobe's Acrobat reader is required to open the. Acrobat Reader is available for free from www.adobe.com

Based on your additional symtoms, I'm suspicious that the tranny will eventually need to come back out though..... Check these and keep your fingers crossed.

Steve

 

[Mark in PDX]

Thanks much steve! I'll have to wait til Saturday to do this when it isn't raining. I don't have a covered space to work at the moment.
I'll post results once I have them.
Mark

 

[Mark in PDX]

well, information-

I didn't get the numbers you gave me I should have gotten.. Did on the OLD transmission that was slipping that I pulled out.. But on the one IN the car, that is throwing codes, I got what you predicted.
25 on the EPC
it bounced some on the shift solenoids, but seemed to bounce between 3-6 or 9.. on 1 & 3, but 2 was 19...

I have a lousy multimeter.. I can't find my good one... but at least it is sunny today so I had fair weather to discover the root of my problem.
Now to figure out how to drop the tranny and pull that pan... What a nightmare.

I think I'll have the car towed to a buddy's and do it there.. I can't do that type of job in my driveway.
Thanks.
Mark

 

[SHOZ123]

FWIW you should be able to change solenoids without dropping the tranny.