Good fuel or lack of it

[FiveLeeter918]

combustion temps are lower for E85, which will make your exhaust temps cooler. Will this have a positive effect on the intake track as you are spinning 20,000 rpm? it's minimal.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

I see what your saying. But you exhaust temp will not drop to 700 degrees. Your exhaust temp will still be insanely high regardless of fuel used. You still have friction heat from turbines spinning and air still being compressed which will heat up, still have hot oil running though the turbo. You intake temp change would be negligable at best. But I would love to see sm do his thing and see real world results.

just to correct, our turbos are coolant filled, not oil filled But carry on...

 

[SHOthyme]

just to correct, our turbos are coolant filled, not oil filled But carry on...

I think this thread is way beyond where we let logic and reasoning cloud our judgement now!

 

[SHO_Off420]

I see what your saying. But you exhaust temp will not drop to 700 degrees. Your exhaust temp will still be insanely high regardless of fuel used. You still have friction heat from turbines spinning and air still being compressed which will heat up, still have hot oil running though the turbo. You intake temp change would be negligable at best. But I would love to see sm do his thing and see real world results.

Yeah but 90% of the heat in the engine is produced by the fuel being burned.... if your fuel is being burned at half the temp then everything is gonna drop.
I could have sworn back when I was originally reading about e85 years ago the aussies were saying their IAT was like 20 degrees cooler with the e85 than 110octane, they also said it has highly superior knock resistance and due to these qualities they were able to switch cars from 110 to e85 and run 10-20psi more boost

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Let me pull some customer datalogs and see how they compare...

 

[High on Ethanol]

Let me pull some customer datalogs and see how they compare...

Yaaaaaaaaaassssss

 

[SM105K]

Lol i do sometimes. Again. E85 burns at like 700degrees and 91 burns at like 1500 degrees. Make your own decisions based of that

Please show me the data on that. I have a hard time believing there is a 800 degree difference in EGT....

 

[GotGrip?]

just to correct, our turbos are coolant filled, not oil filled But carry on...

Oh shit my bad, always forget they are water cooled, first turbo car I've had with water cooled turbos

 

[GotGrip?]

Yeah but 90% of the heat in the engine is produced by the fuel being burned.... if your fuel is being burned at half the temp then everything is gonna drop.
I could have sworn back when I was originally reading about e85 years ago the aussies were saying their IAT was like 20 degrees cooler with the e85 than 110octane, they also said it has highly superior knock resistance and due to these qualities they were able to switch cars from 110 to e85 and run 10-20psi more boost

You wouldn't want the fuel to burn at half the temp though, hot turbos tend to run better as the air velocity can stay higher while warm. If your turbo somehow managed to run 800 degrees cooler than its supposed to, there would be a noticeable power difference and I think it would be less rather than more.

 

[High on Ethanol]

discovered another coincidence maybe? Coolant temp average is 207 on 93 vs 200 on e85

I know...i know....small difference. Ambient temp was 92 on both days

 

[SM105K]

You wouldn't want the fuel to burn at half the temp though, hot turbos tend to run better as the air velocity can stay higher while warm. If your turbo somehow managed to run 800 degrees cooler than its supposed to, there would be a noticeable power difference and I think it would be less rather than more.

Because it isn't true. I am not saying that e85 doesn't burn cooler, just no where in the capicity that Karen thinks and keeps saying.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Well this is about the closest I can find without digging a bunch, there's a 19 day delay between

Same customer car, CAI and downpipes. Stock intercooler and hpfp. Kalamazoo, MI.

July 1 (91 tune) - 90*/62*
July 20 (e30 tune) - 84*/67*

Unfortunately this customer did not log ambient temp, so can't tell exact ambient at the time of the log so that could be skewing data.

Both logs are on 14 psi commanded. 91 tune is seeing 16 degrees of timing sustained, the e30 tune is seeing 22 degrees.

Gonna dig some more and see if I can find some that have a closer ambient.

 

[GotGrip?]

discovered another coincidence maybe? Coolant temp average is 207 on 93 vs 200 on e85

I know...i know....small difference. Ambient temp was 92 on both days

I'm gonna take a stab and say this might be our shutter system, you could always unplug it and do some pulls. That or see if they can program it open, I'm grateful that I did not have that option on my car a long with some of the other electronic "upgrades".

 

[stripSHO]

Please show me the data on that. I have a hard time believing there is a 800 degree difference in EGT....

I'd like to know where those numbers are coming from too. I won't provide my source since it might trigger some individuals. Let's just say it rhymes with prickipedia. But Prickipedia lists the adiabatic flame temperature of ethanol and gasoline at 3779°F and 3880°F respectively.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Lol i do sometimes. Again. E85 burns at like 700degrees and 91 burns at like 1500 degrees. Make your own decisions based of that

You seem to be comparing E85's combustion temp of 689F to gasoline's BURNING temp of 1500F. Gasoline's ignition point is 495*F, which is where the pre-detonation protection of E85 comes in to play.

 

[SM105K]

I'd like to know where those numbers are coming from too. I won't provide my source since it might trigger some individuals. Let's just say it rhymes with prickipedia. But Prickipedia lists the adiabatic flame temperature of ethanol and gasoline at 3779°F and 3880°F respectively.

I have been looking as well. However I did find this article. It was pretty interesting. E85 and 93 run in the same set up with EGT monitored. There were some good questions posed after the results, however I dont see a massively huge change.

https://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php?/topic/4181-does-switching-to-e85-lower-egts/

 

[High on Ethanol]

I have been looking as well. However I did find this article. It was pretty interesting. E85 and 93 run in the same set up with EGT monitored. There were some good questions posed after the results, however I dont see a massively huge change.

https://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php?/topic/4181-does-switching-to-e85-lower-egts/

That's very interesting indeed. We need more guinea pigs

 

[SHO_Off420]

I'd like to know where those numbers are coming from too. I won't provide my source since it might trigger some individuals. Let's just say it rhymes with prickipedia. But Prickipedia lists the adiabatic flame temperature of ethanol and gasoline at 3779°F and 3880°F respectively.

Should have checked my source, it said e85 combustion temp was 700, I see now thats ignition temp not combustion temp

 

[SM105K]

That's very interesting indeed. We need more guinea pigs

The problem is gas motors usually aren't monitored nor tuned by EGT temp. It is all about AFR's.

Diesels on the other hand.......

 

[Jordan_R]

Want to throw into the mix that you get a lot more heat depending on how much timing you're running. Cylinder pressure equals more heat. Lot more timing from ethanol compared to pump fuel