GEN 3 knuckles on OLD cars

[SHODWN]

Just throwing this out there.. What would you guys think of using the Gen 3 knuckles on Gen 1 and 2.

Tell me what you think about it. ALL posts are welcome even if you "think" they wont work.

Rumors and MYths are also welcome here

 

[nc89sho]

I think it would be a good idea, i like there design better than the older ones anyway. IMHO they shouldn't be too hard to retrofit. was thinking of trying this in the futur when i wasn't soo busy.

 

[gmorrell]

I've done a lot of research on this, even bought some Gen 3 Aluminum knuckles to make some mockups and try fitting parts.

Weight savings over a similar Iron knuckle is 3 to 5 pounds, can't recall the exact figure anymore, but regardless of the magnitude, its all unsprung weight loss, so its a good thing.

Beyond the materials, the major difference between the two is the way the ball joint connects to the lower control arm (LCA). Gen 1/2 have the ball joint in the LCA, the ball joint stud is non-tapered and is clamped at the bottom of the knuckle. Gen 3 have the ball joint integral with the knuckle, and use a tapered stud which mates with the Gen 3 LCA. Advantage: Gen 3, the ball joint is replaceable. Otherwise, all the other geometries are identical to the Gen 1/2 knuckle.

You'll need an adapter to use the Gen 3 ball joint stud with the Gen 1/2 LCA. The ball joint can be removed from the Gen 1/2 LCA by grinding off the swaged portion of the arm under the ball joint. The ball joint then just falls out and leaves a nice round, machined pocket. Then you get a steel adapter made which welds into the socket left by the vacated ball joint. The adapter has a tapered hole to match the tapered stud on the Gen 3 ball joint. The stud nuts on from the bottom of the modified Gen 1/2 LCA.

I made some adapters, but I never installed the knuckles due to the issues with putting early Baer/PBR brakes on these knuckles. The high-offset Corvette rotors I use allow me a good deal more flexibility with wheel choice then the low-offset Cobra rotors, which push the caliper outboard, closer to the wheel spokes.

Mustang Cobra 13" brakes are an easy upgrade on the Gen 3 knuckles, assuming your wheels have sufficient spoke clearance to the calipers. 11.6" brakes are also easy to install, as the caliper mount hard points are identical to the '94 and up Taurus Iron knuckle.

If my memory was really good, I could even tell you which taper reamer to go buy to match the Gen 3 stud taper, but its been awhile since I played with this stuff and put it away.

Some folks have looked into using the Gen 3 LCA with the old subframe. This would really be the ideal swap, as you get the better Gen 3 LCA and you don't have to make any adapters to use the Gen 3 knuckle. The Gen 3 LCA has improved anti-dive characteristics, which is why the Gen 3 cars will exhibit less brake dive despite having lower front spring rates then the Gen 1/2 cars.

Good luck.

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Gary M. ]</small>

 

[jelloslug]

So what would be involved in addapting the 1st/2nd gen subframe to fit the 3rd gen LCA? Does the 3rd gen LCA have the forward strut bar in a similar location? How about the overall lenght of the arm itself?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I have been told that this can't be done.

Then again, I had also been told that you couldn't put V6 sway bars on a V8... naughty

 

[Bizzy]

Are Gen4 knuckles the same as gen3? There is a recently wrecked 01 SLO at the boneyard near here, and I was gonna grab the brake system, column MFS, 16in rim spare tire, and trunk cargo net.

It wouldn't be much more for me to pull the front knuckles and stick them on a shelf for possilbe future use. Poor car only had 28k on it too, anyone want a set of Mocha Gen4 cloth front seats?

 

[SHODWN]

Bruce go get them and save them for a rainy day. Plus the Tir rod end on 00 and up are a bit lower and actually better.

 

[SHODWN]

Jello, the two subframes are interchangeable, the only mods you would have to do is cut and re weld in your MM pearches..

Lets stay on topic though, email me off list if that interests you.

 

[pjtoledo]

SHODWN:
Jello, the two subframes are interchangeable, the only mods you would have to do is cut and re weld in your MM pearches.. .........

.

So, the gen III lower control arms will bolt directly to the gen 1/2 subframe? And they will position the knuckle where it should be? If you swap the knuckle and LCA together everything should fit? Does the tension strut attach the same to the LCA? Are GEN III SHO and Slo parts the same, dimensionally as well as functionally? I have not worked on GEN III cars, and haven't a clue on this one.

Perry

 

[SHODWN]

no I said the subframe is