gen 1 turbo sho begining

[Operation SHO]

so after a few months of not knowing anything about fabing my own turbo and picking up every book possible to learn the proper way to match the turbo along with reading toolmans how to turbo, ive started aquiring my turbo set up piece by piece and i cant wait, all im waiting on right now are the exhaust ****** gasket oil feed and return lines a/f ratio gauge and lpm (only temp until i finish reading everything i can get my hands on about tuning and the tweecer) so heres what ive got so far............... now keep in mind this is not a crazy hp set up i only want 10 psi boost and generally just some more grunt out of my daily driver, if my math is correct when i get everything finished for good (injectors fuel pump 80mm MAF) i should be in the area of 287 whp ...... anyone have any pointers when i go for the install or sugestions on how to go about any certain aspects?

 

[yamahaSHO]

10 PSI and 287whp? Only if you spike the boost at low RPM and trail off afterwards. 10 PSI on a power robbing supercharger net me 100 more whp than your math.

 

[Operation SHO]

really?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? did you have any other mods to your car? the over all airflow into the engine off of 10 psi will roughly give me 33lbs/min of air witch roughly relates to 330 chp after a rough estimate of 13% power loss at the flywheel it comes out to 287 whp.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

An LPM is not the way to go for a turbo.

Yeah your numbers are off. With the turbo we are using are around 9psi I plan to be at 350hp at the crank.

What turbo are you using?

What do you plan to do for the piping?

 

[Operation SHO]

57 mm trim compressor with a .63 a/r journal bearing not ball bearing, its funny u replied i actually just wrote shosource an email asking a few questions about using an lpm until i can understand the tweecer and start to finely tune everything the way it should be cause i called the only shop i could find in nj within a reasonable distance to have it dyno tuned and since they dont carry the software to tune a SHO its $500 for them to tune my car on top of me providing the laptop and software (i.e. tweecer r/t)

piping is going to be 3" all the way back from the exhaust ****** to the muffler, and im gonna stick with 2.5" piping to match intercooler and compressor outlet, downpipe is going to run the way ive seen most other sho owners run theirs, right down the back of the engine by the firewall towards the driver side after moving key components, im not aiming for an eye catcher more as functional so EVERYTHING is going to be heat wrapped and in some areas heat sheilds will be added

 

[LOUDSHO92]

I already replied to the email.

Sounds about right for tuning.

What model turbo?

 

[Operation SHO]

alright so i ran out to the car to get my work bag because thats where i have my little notebook where i did all my math for the numbers i came up with, so here it goes
182CID 3.0L motor
324 cfm n/a
486 cfm boosted at (10 psi)
486 cfm x .69=33.534 lbs/min mass air
330 lbs/min.= rougly eaquals 330 chp/ 287 whp

now dont get me wrong i am NOT in any way shape or form trying to argue or say anyone is wrong because i KNOW for a fact you guys know your stuff WAY better than i, im just a little butt hurt that i wasted the time to do the math with the equations i was given to come up wrong, the whole purpose was so that i dont break that 300 ft/lbs of tq to avoid tranny damage. while im at it i might as well get your take on the math i did for the right injector sizing aswell. well here it goes (i actually wrote down the whole formula so you can see where i went with it)

injector size= (engine horsepower x BSFC)/(no. of injectors x duty cycle)
obviously since my math was wrong my injectors are wrong aswell but bare with me

(330hp x .60)/(6 x .9)= 36.6
198 5.4 = 36.6

im gonna have to rethink alot of stuff before i go for the install

 

[yamahaSHO]

really?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? did you have any other mods to your car? the over all airflow into the engine off of 10 psi will roughly give me 33lbs/min of air witch roughly relates to 330 chp after a rough estimate of 13% power loss at the flywheel it comes out to 287 whp.

I'll make it easier in hypothetical terms. Double your pressure over atmosphere, double your power. Do the math from there to get a rough estimate. Given the nature ofthis motor, round up to the nearest 10. Provide an effecient turbo and you'll gain high numbers with ease.

Depending on how you actually set up and run the system, you could be well north of 450 bhp at 10 PSI. You should be aiming for a small, quick spooling turbo and aim for 5-6 PSI for those power goals. It's hard not to make a monster with boost on these engines. Being able to use it is another chapter.

Just go for 44 or 48lbs injectors, you'll be back for more boost.

 

[Operation SHO]

What model turbo?

i went with a t04E because it fit what i was looking for but now that my numbers are WAY off ima have to sit down and do everything the right way and possibly send it back for a more efficient size

i just read your email and i sent that before i realy thought about everything and nothings going in until i get the 80mm MAF 255lph fuel pump and 36# injectors from sho source

 

[LOUDSHO92]

alright so i ran out to the car to get my work bag because thats where i have my little notebook where i did all my math for the numbers i came up with, so here it goes
182CID 3.0L motor
324 cfm n/a
486 cfm boosted at (10 psi)
486 cfm x .69=33.534 lbs/min mass air
330 lbs/min.= rougly eaquals 330 chp/ 287 whp

How did you get to the boosted flow rate?

injector size= (engine horsepower x BSFC)/(no. of injectors x duty cycle)
obviously since my math was wrong my injectors are wrong aswell but bare with me

48lb injectors would be a good place to start.

im gonna have to rethink alot of stuff before i go for the install

Yes very much.

 

[Operation SHO]

How did you get to the boosted flow rate?

324cfm x 1.7 PR =550.8 cfm GOD *&^%$# I FOUND WHERE MY MATH STARTED GOING WRONG!!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH ANGER!!!!!!!!!

i guess running 50,000 lbs machinery in nyc and attempting math on the fly dont really mix well do they.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

324cfm x 1.7 PR =550.8 cfm GOD *&^%$# I FOUND WHERE MY MATH STARTED GOING WRONG!!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH ANGER!!!!!!!!!

i guess running 50,000 lbs machinery in nyc and attempting math on the fly dont really mix well do they.

Nope.

Looks like you have some work.

 

[Operation SHO]

yea i do, well in a way my high hopes have been demolished in a matter of minutes but on the bright side its for the best and saved me ALOT of damage, thanks guys and sorry for the waste of a thread can i delete it? lol i feel like a total a-hole now.


ok so heres where i got after redoing the math i had before

n/a cfm is 322 got there by
182x7200x.5x.85/1728=322

boosted cfm=547

new flow rate
547x.069=37.143 lbs/min mass fow
now for the injector part that i had screwed up from the begining with the wrong math

(370x.6)/(6x.9)=41
222 / 5.4 =41lbs/hr

witch after looking at what i did the first time and the numbers in general seems ALOT more realistic, now i just have to match a new turbo
thanks again guys

 

[rubydist]

.85 is also likely too low of a Ve for the SHO motor. you should use pretty close to 1 and be safe.

 

[Toolman]

its $500 for them to tune my car on top of me providing the laptop and software (i.e. tweecer r/t)

I would spend that $500 at pops racing, not at some unknown dyno shop. Better yet, download the tweecer software and start learning today, by they time you get your SHO ready, you will be able to tune a lot of it yourself.

Also, a word of advice, use a blow-through MAF. Easier to package, better tuneability, and better driveability.

 

[Toolman]

I'll make it easier in hypothetical terms. Double your pressure over atmosphere, double your power. Do the math from there to get a rough estimate.

Depending on how you actually set up and run the system, you could be well north of 450 bhp at 10 PSI.

With your hypotheticals in place, we start with 220hp. 14.7 psi will give us 440hp. That equates to abour 15hp/psi. So, 10 psi = 150hp. 220hp + 150hp = 370 hp. With drivetrain loss, you are looking at about 320whp. A stock 3.0 is not going to make 450hp with 10psi.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Improve air flow into the engine and I assure you that you a stock 3L can get 450bhp... With a power-robbing SC.

 

[Toolman]

Improve air flow into the engine and I assure you that you a stock 3L can get 450bhp... With a power-robbing SC.

And how exactly do you plan to improve the air flow while remaining stock? And certainly ANY stock 3.0L can see 450bhp, just not with 10psi, SC or turbo.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I suppose the definition of stock and the efficiency of the compressor would take effect. I always considered my 3L "stock". With a street tune and 91 octane, it was north of the 450bhp mark at 10 PSI.

I'm still on the fence about E85 as it will give big numbers. 10PSI could yeild pretty large numbers. If the car you're building is trully used as a race car only, you'd do well with E85.

 

[luigisho]

I would spend that $500 at pops racing, not at some unknown dyno shop. Better yet, download the tweecer software and start learning today, by they time you get your SHO ready, you will be able to tune a lot of it yourself.

Also, a word of advice, use a blow-through MAF. Easier to package, better tuneability, and better driveability.

This. Go to popsracing for a tune. Get the tuning done right the first time. It'll be worth the expense.