fuel pump?

[POSHO]

well, I've got a good ol' "car won't start" problem, with a twist
now the DL...
Last night, after dropping $500 for money orders for parts to fix my other car, I give my change to the Salvation Army guy, and go out to my car. I get in, start it up, and it dies; it falls flat on its Ford face
It ran for a couple seconds, then the revs dropped and it died. When I tried to start it up again, it would kinda catch and die. Then, after a few dozen attempts, it just wouldn't do anything. So I say screw it, I'll deal with it later (my friend's dad is a Ford mechanic and their house was a 3 minute walk away But, nobody was home My buddy didn't get off until 11, and his pops was already asleep, so we decided to attack it today. He came and picked me up around noon (lazy bum), and we went to tow my car to his house. For the heck of it, I tried to start it up again...success! wtf?!?! Oh well, I'm not complaining. We figure we'll take it to his house just in case and put my new taillight in. So after I turn it off I try to turn it on again, no go. Oh well, at least it's in a good spot. Well, we get lazy and he has to be back at work at 3, so nothing got done. I went to try to start it up again and go home, and it cooperated. So when I got home I tried to start it up again, right back down on its face. He just got home, and his dad's already asleep, so I write to you, good people of SHOforum.
Sorry about the novel, but pleeaasseee help me
Has anyone had a similar problem, or have any idea on what it might be? I'm guessing it's a electrical trip in the fuel system, as the only time the fuel pump hums when I turn the key is when it actually starts up. Why is it periodic? I have a 190lph fuel pump ready just in case, but my buddy's car could definately use it more, and after swapping out the fuel pump in my Cavalier, I would really like to not have to do it again.
Help me?
thanks in advance

 

[luigisho]

You should hear the fuel pump every time you turn the key to the 'on' position and pause before you engage the starter. If this does not occur then it could very well be your fuel pump. Check it a few times and see how it responds. You may want to check your computer codes and see what's in there. All you need is a paperclip. Check out the visual how to on the http://www.midwestsho.com website

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: luigisho ]</small>

 

[SHOfun 93]

Yep that pretty much sums it up!

 

[POSHO]

POSHO:
the only time the fuel pump hums when I turn the key is when it actually starts up

I was kinda referring to how the only time the car starts is when I can hear the fuel pump after turning the key to the 'on' position before cranking. But I'm curious as to why this only happens at certain times.
Also, after looking at something at the midwestsho site (- Crankshaft position sensor - This part fails commonly and shows it's failure by stalling the engine and not allowing it to restart for sometimes hours. It's failure is commonly caused by the water pump or heat exposure.), I am wondering if this could have any relation, as the symptoms seem similar.
Would it be possible to run a hardwire to the fuel pump and try to 'prime (?)' it manually with a switch? or would this harm it?

 

[projectSHO89]

The only way to determine if you have a fuel delivery problem is to test the system

Since your old man is a Ford mechanic, have him bring home a fuel pressure guage so you can see what you have at the rail.

Steve

 

[POSHO]

well, my firend's old man...
that was the plan last night, but he fell asleep sleep , and I sure as **** wasn't going to wake him shrug
where do you plug into the fuel rail on these things for a pressure reading, is there a schaider (sp?) valve that could be used?
Oh well, Ishould be able to get his help this weekend, and I hope it's not spent cutting a hole under my rear seat

 

[fricker66]

Yes, the schrader valve from the fuel rail is located in between the intake runners. Should have a visible black cap. Test your pressure at that location.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: fricker66 ]</small>

 

[POSHO]

well, I wish checking the fuel pressure on my Cavalier was that easy
The ol' mechanic forgot to bring home the threaded-on guage, so I yanked the one I had setup for tuning on my other car.
According to my little brother (he's 4), the needle never moved beyond 0. I also wasn't lucky enough to get a single hum from the fuel pump.

Now, I'm pretty stuck on this being an electrical problem, as it always seems to be for me (and it would be easier to fix ). So, I am wondering, what would be the easiest place to test the power line to the fuel pump, pcm, pump, somewhere in between? I figure I might as well put a test light to the situation before I start tearing stuff out, right?

-I really need some sort of shop manual for this thing

 

[Mr Anonymous]

READ THE CODES!

 

[luigisho]

You could start at the... well I forget the name of it but.. it's an impact **** switch. Look in the trunk on the driver side quarter panel behind the upholstery. There is a switch with a red button on top. In case of collision it cuts power to the fuel pump. It should be in the depressed position to allow power to the pump. If you have power leaving that switch, I would guess the pump is shot. If power is not getting to the switch, then a circuit in the relay control module is the next likely culprit.

 

[POSHO]

Yeah, unfortunately I've already checked the fuel cutoff switch. It's happened to a couple friends of mine, another SHO, and a foxbody.
I don't want to sound ignorant, but from the way things have gone on, I really want to check to make sure the power's getting to the pump before I go yanking it out What's everyone's opinion on the easiest place to probe for power on its way to the pump?

 

[luigisho]

headbang I just told you. The power routing goes through the switch to the wiring at the pump. If there's power on the other side of the switch then it's getting to the pump harness. Entiendes?

<small>[ December 20, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: luigisho ]</small>

 

[POSHO]

Whoops, I somehow read your last post wrong and thought you were saying something else headbang
Alright, the signal is getting to the pump, so it's time to replace. Because I don't want to waste a tank of gas(and I hate dropping tanks), I'm going to go with creating an access panel, but the instructions from crazysho are down (link is bad) . Does anybody have the instructions saved someplace, it'd be nice to have the dimensions before I start cutting wink

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: POSHO ]</small>

 

[LowSHO]

Lots of people on this site have warned against cutting an access panel with a full tank of gas.

My 13 year old pump gave up the ghost last summer on a full tank of gas. All you need is about 12 feet of 1/4" or 3/8" fuel hose from your local auto parts guy. Work it around the bends and the connections till you have about 4' left and siphon out the gas into 2 or 3 large gas cans. All of this is cheap.

I lifted the car and dropped the tank (there's a procedure on shotimes.com) replaced the pump and put it all together in a day - and I'm all thumbs.

If you are going to the trouble of replacing the fuel pump, go down to the Ford dealer and get the replacement bolts and clips for the tank straps.

Good luck.