fuel pump 60K issue

[Brian Smith]

After two weeks the 60k is finally done, top and bottom. The capable and dedicated Hayden came by earlier this afternoon and adjusted my valve lash for me. Timing belt etc. also finished. Problem is when i went to start the car it wouldnt start. It turns over but will not run. The fuel pump is not energizing before the car cranks. The switch can be heard faintly, but not the familiar fuel pump whirring. I checked pins 10 and 12 at the CCRM and got battery voltage. I checked pin 5 and got no voltage. So i switched out the ccrm. No luck. I cut a hole in my floor and checked the voltage at the pump harness. I got 2 volts on one of the pins when i grounded it 0 volts going to ground on the rest of the pins. Is my fuel pump bad? I have a replacement, but i dont want to install it until i am sure this is the problem. The only electrical thing that i messed with during the 60k was switching out the cps for a new unit. Would this cause a fuel pump malfunction? WTF? I finish a job well done and all i hear is cranking. Demoralizing is an understatement. Anyone have any suggestions/more explicit fuel pump troubleshooting guides than the search function has uncovered? Thanks again Hayden!!
Brian

 

[Dr. Tweak]

Did you plug the CPS back in? Did you gap it correctly?

Did you try to pull the codes?

 

[Brian Smith]

I cant pull codes, the code reader Hayden brought would not recognize my car for some reason...i also have a really low battery which might be affecting the code sending ablities of the car. The CPS is plugged in and I believe it was gapped correctly: .77 mm. Would either of those two even affect the fuel pump?

 

[Dr. Tweak]

Well you don't know for sure that the fuel pump is your problem, do you? I mean, it was working before you started working on the car. Your car isn't starting because of something that wasn't put together correctly, I garantee it. Why would the pump suddenly go bad when it wasn't even being used?

No, you're looking in the wrong place. Pull the codes. (Use the instructions on my site.) If your battery is very low then yank another one from somewhere, but if your car is turning over then I don't think it would be a problem.

The car WAS running before, right?

 

[Brian Smith]

the car was running before. Every time i would start it though i would hear quite clearly, the whine of the fuel pump energizing. Now i hear only a click. The systems that regulate the fuel pump would seem to be totally separate from the front of the engine where i did work. Incidentally, i checked the engine to see if it would work before diving into the upper 60k. So it was at at some point between when i parked it and when i finished the front 60 that it stopped energizing. I cant figure it out...the only thing I can think of is some sort of fault in the pump circuit that i caused while doing the work...but it seems like I would have noticed that...By some freak accident the pump might have died...it was awfully noisy before I began.

 

[Brian Smith]

I will pull codes tommorrow, but i am not optimistic...

 

[Dr. Tweak]

You could check the collision pump shut-off switch... it's in the trunk... maybe somehow that went off?

 

[Brian Smith]

checked that, it was not triggered. Mabey i should check voltages before and after the inertia switch, i did read somewhere that the switch can occasionally go bad...JD have you or anyone who is reading in, have any experience with a CPS wreaking havoc on the fuel pump? Also another consideration. I had to crank the car several times with the DIS unplugged to break the crankshaft bolt loose. Could this cause the fuel pump to shut off to avoid flooding the engine? Just a thought...

 

[Dr. Tweak]

No, I really don't think there is any connection.

How long did you crank it?

 

[Brian Smith]

its not that I cranked it for very long, its just that I had to crank it several times to get a setup that knocked the bolt loose...later this afternoon I will run codes and keep working on it. Ill keep you posted. Thanks for the help...

 

[projectSHO89]

Identify your car by year and tranny. There are differences.

There should be voltage at pin 5 of the IRCM/CCRM whenever the FP is enabled. I hope you are grounding the FP test point on the DLC to check this.

Your problem does not appear to be the FP itself. It is in the control and supply circuits that power the pump.

Steve

 

[Brian Smith]

Steve,
My car is a 91 with an MTX (naturally). Pin 5 does not energize. I grounded pin five on the car's chassis. What is the DLC? When I put the car key in the on position I have 12 volts at pin 10 and pin 12 and 0 volts at pin 5. (positive side of voltmeter on pin and negative on chassis). What do you mean by "ground the fuel pump test point on the DLC"? Are you talking about that grey plug? How would I diagnose the fault in the pump circuit (assuming this is the problem and given I have already read your instructions as posted in other threads and, as you can see, quickly ran into problems)

JD,
I tried to run codes today. My battery is dead so i jumpered a fresh battery inline. I ran the paperclip as per your instructions. I put the car in the on position. The cooling fan did not energize, the fuel pump did not energize, the check engine light stayed on steadily and it appeared that it was going to remain so indefinitely. Basically the KOEO test would not happen. WTF?

My car hates me for trying to take car of it.

 

[Brian Smith]

Another quick question, could someone tell me the voltages I should be getting at the harness for the fuel pump at the tank (under rear seat floor panel) on each of the four pins and their wire colors when the key is first turned on (pump priming) thanks! :jpshakeh:

 

[Brian Smith]

Please any help would be much appreciated as i want to get to the bottom of this tommorrow before two days of exam ****...I bought a replacement fuel pump if that ends up being the problem. I got it at autozone and I cant find out what the flow rate is...supposedly it is sho specific but it wouldnt suprise me if those dumba$$es would sell me a 90 lph pump. Trying to be detailed as my particular symptoms dont seem to have been covered before. Thanks!

 

[projectSHO89]

Do NOT ground pin 5 of the IRCM. That shorts the output of the FP relay to ground and will cause smoke. While you're at it, measure pin 5 to ground and make sure it is not shorted to ground.

The DLC is the Data Link Connector. See http://www.shotimes.com/php-bin/mod...le=article&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&sid=83 for the diagram. When the FP pin is grounded, the LOW speed FP relay in the IRCM is energized and supplies Battery power from pin 10 (input) to pin 5 (output). If there is power on pin 10 and the relay clicks, then there should be power to the inertia switch. If there is none and the preconditions have been met, then there is a fault inside the IRCM.

Wires at tank should be:

FP POWER - PNK/BLK
FP GROUND - BLACK
The other two are for the sending unit/sensor.

If you got the Airtex E2001 from AZ, it is more than adequate for a stock SHO per this email from them:

"Steve,

The flow rate for the E2001 is 30-40 GPH and has a max pressure of
80-100 P.S.I. Thank you for the inquiry.


Craig Gottfried
Tech Line Supervisor
Airtex Products
800-424-7839
Fax 618-847-8678"


Make sure you are using the correct pin on the DLC to try to activate the self-test. Don't hold the connector upside down, either.

Steve

 

[Brian Smith]

Thanks Steve! Results this evening...

 

[Brian Smith]

AAARRGH. I am such an electronics illiterate. Someone must have had this problem before, my car is ******* me off sooooooooo much. I cant get it to run a KOEO test. Yes, its jumpered correctly, yes I have a full battery, no the car has not been run in two weeks...The fuel pump still wont energize. In desperation/stupidity I I swapped in a now non-refundable fuel pump. Sigh...Nice to know I just flushed sixty bucks down the toilet. Please help!
With the fuel pump test point grounded I get 12 volts to pin 10 and pin 12 . I get 0 volts to pin 5. Swapping in a different CCRM yields the same result! How do I go about diagnosing the problem? Could it be a bad ECU not sending a ground to the fuel pump relay? Should I jsut rewire everything from the battery back to the pump with an aftermarket relay? I havent been this ****** and felt this inept in a long time. I am never doing ANY maintenance again!(just kidding) HOW could this happen? I didnt touch anything related to the fuel pump!!

 

[masho95]

Seeing how you can't run a KOEO test, that would tend to make me think that you have a wiring problem going to the CCRM. And as Mikey K. said in another post power to the PCM is routed through the CCRM, so perhaps the main computer isn't getting the power it needs to even run the KOEO test.

 

[Brian Smith]

i jumpered pin 10 to pin 5 and the fuel pump ran fine. I guess I can rule out a break in the fuel pump circuit. It must be a problem with the wiring that tells the pump to turn on. I left 5 and 10 jumpered like that and the car still wouldnt start. Just fuel pump runs and it just cranks and cranks and does not start. Could this all be related to some computer problem? Why wont my sho start?

 

[Brian Smith]

anyone know anyone in the MD area that is good with SHO electronics? I think this problem is beyond the scope of my ability.