Frustrated 2

[SHOYAY]

So i got the running bad part fixed, end up being a vac hose and both O2 sensors bad along with a sticky secondary...runs pretty good.
The other problem it had that didn't bring up until end of my last Frustrated thread, is the noise it makes under any type of engine load, not bad at idle to rev, hardly there yet still is, but loud when when putting it under a load accelerating. It sounds exactly like an older hydraulic lift engine when one of the lifters has collapsed or is noisy.
Using a stethoscope, I've narrowed it to being the loudest when I put the stethoscope on the intake manifold bolt that is the 2nd one in from the driver's side on the front of the manifold. That's where it's the loudest. Fair noise coming from manifold to head bolt just under the throttle body. And some is heard in fuel rail right near that 2nd manifold bolt in. Stethoscope to galley area, barely audible, same as valve covers, block, tranny case, oil pan , all of which can't hear it or barely hear it.
I replaced rear cam tensioner, checked valve lash, all were good, didn't pull shims cause no tools, visually checked what you can see of the valve springs. All that and still the noise.
Have 22hg vac at idle, 60psi cold, 20psi hot idle oil pressures, 35 fuel pressure.
I'm out of ideas... maybe I missed something or forgot something....
Any ideas/help?

 

[Tim Brand]

Try turning the radio volume up that always works for the wife. I am experiencing some of the same issue with my 92 which vac hose did it end up being? I've replaced some of them but will have to keep going I guess. Ordering new O2 sensors tomorrow. I don't have the noise your hearing though not sure what it could be.

 

[SHOYAY]

Try turning the radio volume up that always works for the wife. I am experiencing some of the same issue with my 92 which vac hose did it end up being? I've replaced some of them but will have to keep going I guess. Ordering new O2 sensors tomorrow. I don't have the noise your hearing though not sure what it could be.

Vac hose to rear secondaries

 

[NoSlo]

I hate to say it, but front cam chain tensioner?

And even more, the symptom of more load = more noise still indicates a bearing, or even something unlikely like a piston pin. The top of the engine cares more about RPMs than it does about a floored pedal when it comes to noise.

You say valve lash was good, that you checked the gap for both intake and exhaust and noted them on a worksheet? Nothing was over spec, so we can cross valve noise off the suspect list?

Going to the less probable of things you haven't gone over could be a loud injector. The KOER cylinder test disables an injector at a time (measuring for a cylinder that contributes less to RPM), starting at #6, during which you can listen. Disabling an injector still can "disable" rod noise, though, but it would let you know the cylinder number. And it's not a problem unless you have fuel symptoms, like a washed or carboned spark plug or cylinder test imbalance.

A lavalier mic taped to a coat hangar is what I've used to isolate noises, like pulleys. Connected to a digital recorder you say "injector 1" then put it close to injector 1, etc, and review the tape.

Here a guy uses a scope hooked to both a spark signal and a mic to isolate which injector isn't clicking; similar techniques could be used to find this anomaly, and determine where and in which cylinder's cycle it would be ticking, but would take equipment most won't have. If it comes right at the spark of one cylinder, it could be the intake valve closing or being forced closed, if it is soon after, likely in the connecting rod or piston clearances.

An oil change to an oil with high film shear strength, like 5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology, may dampen noise, and any change would let you know it is in the engine's lubricated parts.

PS Castrol changed their oil formulas across the board, it could no longer be recommended as highly as it once was for pristine SHO innards.

 

[SHOYAY]

I hate to say it, but front cam chain tensioner?

And even more, the symptom of more load = more noise still indicates a bearing, or even something unlikely like a piston pin. The top of the engine cares more about RPMs than it does about a floored pedal when it comes to noise.

You say valve lash was good, that you checked the gap for both intake and exhaust and noted them on a worksheet? Nothing was over spec, so we can cross valve noise off the suspect list?

Going to the less probable of things you haven't gone over could be a loud injector. The KOER cylinder test disables an injector at a time (measuring for a cylinder that contributes less to RPM), starting at #6, during which you can listen. Disabling an injector still can "disable" rod noise, though, but it would let you know the cylinder number. And it's not a problem unless you have fuel symptoms, like a washed or carboned spark plug or cylinder test imbalance.

A lavalier mic taped to a coat hangar is what I've used to isolate noises, like pulleys. Connected to a digital recorder you say "injector 1" then put it close to injector 1, etc, and review the tape.

Here a guy uses a scope hooked to both a spark signal and a mic to isolate which injector isn't clicking; similar techniques could be used to find this anomaly, and determine where and in which cylinder's cycle it would be ticking, but would take equipment most won't have. If it comes right at the spark of one cylinder, it could be the intake valve closing or being forced closed, if it is soon after, likely in the connecting rod or piston clearances.

An oil change to an oil with high film shear strength, like 5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology, may dampen noise, and any change would let you know it is in the engine's lubricated parts.

PS Castrol changed their oil formulas across the board, it could no longer be recommended as highly as it once was for pristine SHO innards.

Checked front tensioner when I had valve covers off, chain was tight and tensioner would collapse a bit, as much as I could make it go down, bout 1/4 of an inch...I didn't mark valve clearances on a worksheet, just compared to allowable specs....as for injector, never heard one be loud like that before under a load...I did run it with 10w-40 one time(had some Quaker state laying around) got it fully hot and made no difference in the noise at all...put 5w-30 Valvoline synthetic back in, and of course, noise still the same

 

[NoSlo]

I wish I could give you something else other than rod knock, like you put in the wrong spark plugs and one is hitting the piston...or somehow you got a built-up engine needing 100 octane.

 

[SHOYAY]

I wish I could give you something else other than rod knock, like you put in the wrong spark plugs and one is hitting the piston...or somehow you got a built-up engine needing 100 octane.

Lol, I agree. One other thing I did last night was pull individual plug wires one at a time and that didn't affect the noise...I was thinking that's the good way to also isolate if it's a possible rod knock, taking away the combustion

 

[FastCAD]

So i got the running bad part fixed, end up being a vac hose and both O2 sensors bad along with a sticky secondary...runs pretty good.
The other problem it had that didn't bring up until end of my last Frustrated thread, is the noise it makes under any type of engine load, not bad at idle to rev, hardly there yet still is, but loud when when putting it under a load accelerating. It sounds exactly like an older hydraulic lift engine when one of the lifters has collapsed or is noisy.
Using a stethoscope, I've narrowed it to being the loudest when I put the stethoscope on the intake manifold bolt that is the 2nd one in from the driver's side on the front of the manifold. That's where it's the loudest. Fair noise coming from manifold to head bolt just under the throttle body. And some is heard in fuel rail right near that 2nd manifold bolt in. Stethoscope to galley area, barely audible, same as valve covers, block, tranny case, oil pan , all of which can't hear it or barely hear it.
I replaced rear cam tensioner, checked valve lash, all were good, didn't pull shims cause no tools, visually checked what you can see of the valve springs. All that and still the noise.
Have 22hg vac at idle, 60psi cold, 20psi hot idle oil pressures, 35 fuel pressure.
I'm out of ideas... maybe I missed something or forgot something....
Any ideas/help?

Speaking of tensioners and bearings. The cam belt has a bearing tensioner that makes a **** of alot of noise when it is going bad especially under heavy load and I found it to be difficult to troubleshoot where the noise was coming from. It did sound like it was coming from the inside of the engine but was difficult to isolate it to coming from behind the water pump cover. Not till after I removed the bearing and hand spun it did I hear that was where this awful noise was coming from.
Being your SHO is running well it just might be something you might want to check.

 

[luigisho]

Lol, I agree. One other thing I did last night was pull individual plug wires one at a time and that didn't affect the noise...I was thinking that's the good way to also isolate if it's a possible rod knock, taking away the combustion

It likely won't eliminate rod knock. Maybe change the noise a little?

 

[SHOYAY]

Speaking of tensioners and bearings. The cam belt has a bearing tensioner that makes a **** of alot of noise when it is going bad especially under heavy load and I found it to be difficult to troubleshoot where the noise was coming from. It did sound like it was coming from the inside of the engine but was difficult to isolate it to coming from behind the water pump cover. Not till after I removed the bearing and hand spun it did I hear that was where this awful noise was coming from.
Being your SHO is running well it just might be something you might want to check.

Cam belt tensioner? You mean the timing belt tensioner? Cams have chain.

 

[SHOYAY]

Finally was able to have someone stop by and run it while I was able to search for it cause it's so much louder under a load on it...it's coming from the valve cover area on front cover at the top on the driver's side...like right under the D O on the dohc stamped into the manifold...did a second reading of the valve lash ...the int ones there are .007 and exh ones .012...so valve lash ok... tensioner seems fine and nothing else looks wrong

 

[FastCAD]

Cam belt tensioner? You mean the timing belt tensioner? Cams have chain.

Yes, timing belt tensioner bearing.

When my bearing went bad on my '91 it took me a few days to figure out where the racket was coming from because the noise that bearing made sounded like it was coming from other than where it was.

I had a stethoscope and I could hear the noise coming from different locations. The problem was trying to use the stethoscope on the timing belt cover between the accessory belts lol.

Finally I "carefully" used a long screwdriver with a plastic handle to listen in on the belt cover and could clearly hear the bad bearing.

My situation was similar to what you went through. The SHO was running well (still does @ 225,000 mi.) and the heads have never been off, so I thought I would add my 2cts. and maybe save you from doing something drastic.

Best of Luck,
Joe

 

[SHOYAY]

So to all, and it was many, that said my noise was rod bearings...WRONG! I went thru the rod bearings today, all were perfectly fine, but put new ones I had in anyways. It kinda sucks that everyone automatically thinks rod bearings when these motors make noise, especially one that was just redone 10k ago. So I'm at the end of my rope with it...did valve lash, was fine, did rod bearings, was fine, did tensioners, were fine, checked timing belt bearing for noise and it's quiet....idk what else can be...just gonna drive it and if it blows up it blows up...done doing all this work and accomplishing nothing to get rid of the noise

 

[luigisho]

These engines were pretty durable minus cam issues. Drive it hard and put another one in if it craps the bed. My old v8 was running strong at 200k ish. Only reason I bailed on it was the tranny was going out


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-3-4...4L+207Cu.+In.+V8+GAS+DOHC+Naturally+Aspirated

 

[SHOYAY]

Well after having 3 different Ford techs and 2 mechanics listen to the noise...4 out of 5 of them, yea I know funny, concluded that my noise is most likely a wrist pin noise from #6 cyl. I'm just gonna drive it and live with the noise til it becomes a winter project to fix as long as she doesn't blow up before that.

 

[luigisho]

Nothing better than a winter project in western NY. Grew up in NE PA. yuk!

 

[SHOYAY]

Nothing better than a winter project in western NY. Grew up in NE PA. yuk!

Exactly... you must've been smart and got the **** outta dodge lol

 

[SHOdded]

 

[kevinspann]

Secondaries rattling? You can pull the vacuum hose to them so they open and see if it stops. If it's an ATX car, the timing belt tensioner will make noise when the engine is running. It might seem fine with the car off, but if you pull the top timing cover and rev it, and look down into the middle cover you can see the tensioner pulley moving around and hitting the timing cover, it sounds an awful lot like a knock.

 

[SHOYAY]

Mines not that loud lol...it's like a lifter tick