Front 60k finished, engine still running very hot

[SHO>*]

Just finished the front 60k (FINALLY!) which I was basically forced into doing due to a kaput water pump. She started right up and sounded great. Pulled out of the shop to head home and barely a mile down the road I glanced at the temp gauge and it was pegged above the H. The radiator (which was also replaced during the 60k) has pressure. Please tell me it's something easy like my thermostat being stuck shut.

 

[SHOtimer]

Did you fill it up with coolant?

By doing all that to the cooling system you should have replaced the thermostat. If the radiator is new, and the water pump is new, then I would replace the radiator cap, and the thermostat.

Doug

 

[SHO>*]

Yes I filled it with coolant lol

The radiator cap is also new. I'm pretty positive it's got to be the thermostat, just looking for some reassurance I guess. Stupid question time. Does the water pump flow from the engine to the radiator or vice versa?

 

[SHOtimer]

Well it pumps coolant just around inside the motor, untill the thermostat opens. Then it pumps it through the motor, and then out of it, into the radiator and back into the motor. It sounds as if you need a new thermostat and a good coolant flush.

IMHO get a Motorcraft thermostat.

Doug

 

[Shoman594]

After the system is fully drained and is refilled there will be air pockets that will need to be worked out with time. You replaced the water pump and the radiator but not the thermostat ??? That should have been a replacement item on your 60k list. Buy the motorcraft thermostat with the jiggle valves and you should be good to go. While your at it double check to make sure your radiator fan is actually turning on.

 

[SHO>*]

Ok, I'll be able to sleep tonight knowing that that's all it is. If I had to dig any further then that after everything I've allready been through with the 60k I think I'd lose it. Thanks for the help again.

 

[F-22 Raptor SHO]

you have an airpocket due to the fact it was pegged so quickly. squeeze the radiator hose alot after you fill the overflow jug and it will gradually work thru some of the big pockets, but the system will take a bit to equilibrate as you drive the car. Keep a close eye on the jug.

 

[SHO_Diehard]

The thermostat should have a disk that closes the bypass when the thermostat opens. Get a Motorcraft thermostat and you'll have that for sure.

 

[SHO>*]

Got the motorcraft tstat and put it in. The old one was obviously bad as it fell out in 3 pieces when I removed the housing. Now I've come upon yet another problem. The engine still heats up quite hot, not quite pegged as it was doing before but heating up to just under the red line at the top. At that point if I step on the throttle a bit the temp rapidly drops down just to rise right back to where it was. The fans aren't kicking in at all until the needle is right at about the H. The fans do run both low and high when testing. From searching other threads it sounds like this is likely my ECT sensor? If so where is this located and how difficult will it be to replace?

 

[SHOtimer]

It is located if looking straight at the thermostat to the right. It screws into the housing that is to the right of the thermostat and has a 2 (or three wire connector) plugging into it.

I would certainly replace that if your fans are turning on that late. IMHO get the Motorcraft version of that also, because it is brass when other aftermarket ones are plastic.

I would also replace the sensor for the gauge on the dash, it is to the left of the thermostat and has a one wire connector on the top of it.

The ECT part number is: F2AZ-12A648-A
The guage sending unit is: F1SZ-10884-A

Doug

 

[SHO>*]

Thanks for the reply. I found the ECT at a local ford dealer, my fans are now coming on at what at least seems like the proper time. I didn't, however, replace the gauge sending unit. Is there a specific reason why you suggest I replace it or do you say that just since I'm in the area anyway? The reason I ask is that my gauge is acting strangely. It is still climbing higher then it should, right around the RM range, then dropping to L and rising and dropping and rising etc. While it is doing this I put my hand on the intake manifold and it was cool enough for me to keep my hand there indefinately so it seems to me that the gauge is just confused.

 

[SHOtimer]

The intake manifold is not a proper way to judge engine temperature, because it can fluctuate based on air movement, more than engine temp.

The gauge sender because they often don't give *accurate* readings when they become aged, so it is a simple enough to change and know for a fact that your gauge is accurate.

'RM' is in the middle of normal, so you should be fine. When sitting at idle it will raise to that level and then drop when the fans turn on and cool it down (this is normal). That middle area is not a bad spot for the temp to be. It sounds like your cooling system is back to normal.

Doug

 

[SHO_Diehard]

my gauge is acting strangely. It is still climbing higher then it should, right around the RM range, then dropping to L and rising and dropping and rising etc.

I assume it's not the fans cutting in and out, you would probably have noticed that. Could be air in the system at this point. It takes a few temperature cycles to work the air out.

 

[SHO>*]

Maybe it just seems odd to me because it isn't what I'm used to. When I first bought the car up until a couple months ago when it died the temp gauge never rose above the A and, once it was there, would hardly move from that spot until the engine was turned off. The movement now from RA to L happens within a matter of 3-5 seconds then climbs back up in around 30 seconds and immediately repeats. Do the fans turning on and off really affect the engine temp so quickly? I apologize for all the questions, I'm still learning and worry when something changes and I don't fully understand why.

 

[SHOtimer]

You don't need to apologize for sincere questions. Well, you should give it a few days to work the bubbles out of the system, but if it isn't going into the red or upper portion of the gauge i wouldn't be worried.

Doug

 

[SHO>*]

Thanks for all the help so far, I'm sure I'll be needing more. Alot has been done to the car since it severely overheated and killed the waterpump, radiator, starter, thermostat, ECT, etc...So I'm probably being a little more attentive then I need to be to every little nuance. Full front 60k has been done as well as replacing everything I just listed other then the starter. With the starter in its current condition it's quite a task just to get the car started. Until I get the starter replaced (hopefully this weekend) the car won't be seeing much running time. Once that's done I'll take your advice and give it a few days of driving to work out the kinks. Again thanks for all the help, without it my car probably wouldn't even be running in order to make me worry about the temp.

 

[SHO_Diehard]

If the fans are turning on and off, you can turn the A/C on and the fans will run all the time. Then you can see if the temp will stabilize.

No problem with questions, good luck with it.

 

[SHO>*]

Got the new starter in today and ran her around the block for awhile. The temperature seems to be stable fluctuating just a little between the R to A range.

Some things still concern me though. When I first tried starting it after putting the new starter in it took quite awhile to get her going. It backfired a couple times, a few times violantly enough to where I thought the airbox/hose was going to blow right off the throttle-body. Once I did get her running it was pretty rough. Wouldn't stay running without my foot on the gas. I figured the computer just needed to re-learn everything so didn't really worry about it much. After running around a bit it seemed to get better, wasn't dieing at stops, plenty of power, idling at 1k. However, somtimes when I start it it will still run rough. The rpms will be fine at 1k at first then drop to about 500 and she dies. There's a faint popping (for lack of a better adjective) sound coming from the tailpipes like it's lightly backfiring. There's also a fair amount of water in the tailpipes and white smoke/steam coming out when she's running. It doesn't smell like coolant...in fact when I dipped my hand in it and smelled it it reminded me of how an electrical fire smells. There's also a fairly loud hissing noise that seems to be coming from the left rear quarter of the car. Following is a list of everything that has been done to the car from the time it died a few months ago to today when I starter her up and a list of codes that I just pulled. Any ideas?

Work done:
water pump
timing belt
accessory belt
crank and cam seals
cps
radiator and lower hose
thermostat
engine coolant temp sensor
starter
oil change

Codes:
327 (O,R,M) EGR feedback signal is/was low - EVR or PFE
172 (R,M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean - Single, Right orr Rear HO2S - Fuel control
176 (M) Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was lean Left or Front HO22SSS - Fuel control
556 (O,M) Fuel pump relay primary circuit fault - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
136 (R) Oxygen sensor not switching/system lean Left or Front HO2S - Fuel control
538 (R) System did not receive "goose" test

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, looks like you have the temperature situation resolved, that is a good position for the gauge and good fluctuation.

If you search for that EGR code you will find a complete diagnostic for it from either Rangerj, or ProjectSHO89.

I would change the o2 sensors with the bosch ones from Autozone, looks like they are done for. That is unless you have a large vacuum leak in your intake manifold. Either way, with unknown mileage on them, I would replace them, they make a dramatic difference in how the motor runs.

The 556 code, means the car stalled. That is it.

The 538 - you didn't punch the gas when you should have when you checked the codes.

From your story about starting it, I would consider replacing the CID sensor, its failure can result in symptoms you are describing.

Is the condensation out of the tail pipes more than it usually produces (ie: normal cold morning condensation, or a thick cloud of steam?) I would entertain checking the coolant for carbon, or performing a 'leakdown' or compression check to verify the HG's are in good shape.

Doug

 

[oh_SHO]

You said it severly overheated, how bad was it? Possibly enough to warp the heads?