Forged Rods

[StealBlueSho]

Im all for a closed deck engine but do you know of a company that already has built transmissions to handle a full out race engine while keeping the awd. Ive been reading on about the stock transmission is the sho and most of the time its a pin in it that fails and you lose gears. Other than small things, can the stock gearing handle more then the 600whp? I was trying to find what things commonly break with peoples trannys, to see what actually didnt break initially

And this is why I haven't started down the path of an engine build. I want the driveline firmed up before going down that route.

I have talked to a few local shops about beefing up the trans, unfortunately, there is no one familiar enough the 6F55 that want's to take on the task.

Here is what I do know..

1: The stock torque converter appears to start having issues locking much past 500AWHP. I wonder if this is also why BPD1151 was told that his 600+hp tune may not make it all the way down the track.

2: There is are different tuning styles for the trans... some tuners retain the torque modified at shift to lessen the stress on the trans, other completely remove it in the name of performance. I have yet to hear about a transmission failure due to power production when the torque modifiers are in place.

3: I have not heard of any RDU failures due to power... this also is probably because the ECU limited the amount of power the RDU can take via electronic clutch packs. You can see this in the datalogs.

4: I have not seen a PTU failure directly linked to power production either. This is also because the ECU limits power being transfered to the RDU via PTU. You can see this in the logs.

The trans failures I have seen don't seem to be correlated with power production. Its more a combination of abuse and lack of maintenance OR lately, there seems to be a lot of proof that cavitation on hard lunches has caused burn clutch packs/torque converter failures.

These are clearly from me just doing research and following the communities. But to date, no one has had a trans blow up on the dyno at higher power productions.

 

[SM105K]

And this is why I haven't started down the path of an engine build. I want the driveline firmed up before going down that route.

I have talked to a few local shops about beefing up the trans, unfortunately, there is no one familiar enough the 6F55 that want's to take on the task.

Here is what I do know..

1: The stock torque converter appears to start having issues locking much past 500AWHP. I wonder if this is also why BPD1151 was told that his 600+hp tune may not make it all the way down the track.

2: There is are different tuning styles for the trans... some tuners retain the torque modified at shift to lessen the stress on the trans, other completely remove it in the name of performance. I have yet to hear about a transmission failure due to power production when the torque modifiers are in place.

3: I have not heard of any RDU failures due to power... this also is probably because the ECU limited the amount of power the RDU can take via electronic clutch packs. You can see this in the datalogs.

4: I have not seen a PTU failure directly linked to power production either. This is also because the ECU limits power being transfered to the RDU via PTU. You can see this in the logs.

The trans failures I have seen don't seem to be correlated with power production. Its more a combination of abuse and lack of maintenance OR lately, there seems to be a lot of proof that cavitation on hard lunches has caused burn clutch packs/torque converter failures.

These are clearly from me just doing research and following the communities. But to date, no one has had a trans blow up on the dyno at higher power productions.

I agree with this post 100%.

 

[yaycandy]

And this is why I haven't started down the path of an engine build. I want the driveline firmed up before going down that route.

I have talked to a few local shops about beefing up the trans, unfortunately, there is no one familiar enough the 6F55 that want's to take on the task.

Here is what I do know..

1: The stock torque converter appears to start having issues locking much past 500AWHP. I wonder if this is also why BPD1151 was told that his 600+hp tune may not make it all the way down the track.

2: There is are different tuning styles for the trans... some tuners retain the torque modified at shift to lessen the stress on the trans, other completely remove it in the name of performance. I have yet to hear about a transmission failure due to power production when the torque modifiers are in place.

3: I have not heard of any RDU failures due to power... this also is probably because the ECU limited the amount of power the RDU can take via electronic clutch packs. You can see this in the datalogs.

4: I have not seen a PTU failure directly linked to power production either. This is also because the ECU limits power being transfered to the RDU via PTU. You can see this in the logs.

The trans failures I have seen don't seem to be correlated with power production. Its more a combination of abuse and lack of maintenance OR lately, there seems to be a lot of proof that cavitation on hard lunches has caused burn clutch packs/torque converter failures.

These are clearly from me just doing research and following the communities. But to date, no one has had a trans blow up on the dyno at higher power productions.

Thats why i stopped really wanting to have it high hp. I wanted forged rods and pistons for the larger turbo for safety. Im sure stock internals can handle it if not abused to often. Just too much spinning under the car and for it to be rated at 365hp at the crank from ford. Im sure the drivetrain can handle more but probably not double crank hp, transmission aside. Maybe engine swapped into a car with rwd tranny and the car being similar weight can handle anything the engine can throw at it. I dont understand how the gtr can throw all that hp into an awd car and still be safe for double stock hp, some crazy precise engineering there

 

[StealBlueSho]

Thats why i stopped really wanting to have it high hp. I wanted forged rods and pistons for the larger turbo for safety. Im sure stock internals can handle it if not abused to often. Just too much spinning under the car and for it to be rated at 365hp at the crank from ford. Im sure the drivetrain can handle more but probably not double crank hp, transmission aside. Maybe engine swapped into a car with rwd tranny and the car being similar weight can handle anything the engine can throw at it. I dont understand how the gtr can throw all that hp into an awd car and still be safe for double stock hp, some crazy precise engineering there

You would be better off finding an F150 3.5 EB motor for that project. I have quotes from a couple shops in an attempt to convert my 2010 SHO from AWD to RWD. Sparing the gory details... that cost is such that the only reason you would do it, would be because you love the platform/car/bragging rights... so much fab work that needs to be the cost was approaching that of buying another SHO...

As far as the motor.. historically if you have a good tuner and follow a good regime of maintenance then mid 400's is considered safe.. The highest AWHP SHO LMS has released out of their shop on the stock block was 465awhp.. and if LMS is willing to stamp their name on that, then you know its within the realm of safe.

Matt Robinson at GH is pushing just over 500/500 to the wheels on his ride.. beats the snot out of it.. and its running fine. That being said, his is also a PP which based on this thread, there are some differences in the motor.

There was another sho pushing 580awhp to the wheels without issues. Until the meth pump failed going down the track..

GTR is a different beast all together.. completely not comparable to our platform. Unfortunately..

 

[SM105K]

Thats why i stopped really wanting to have it high hp. I wanted forged rods and pistons for the larger turbo for safety. Im sure stock internals can handle it if not abused to often. Just too much spinning under the car and for it to be rated at 365hp at the crank from ford. Im sure the drivetrain can handle more but probably not double crank hp, transmission aside. Maybe engine swapped into a car with rwd tranny and the car being similar weight can handle anything the engine can throw at it. I dont understand how the gtr can throw all that hp into an awd car and still be safe for double stock hp, some crazy precise engineering there

Personally I think you are wasting your time and money with the engine upgrade. The stock engine with upgrades has been proven to get able to be built past the limitations of the drive train.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Personally I think you are wasting your time and money with the engine upgrade. The stock engine with upgrades has been proven to get able to be built past the limitations of the drive train.

Depends on his goals really... if he wants the comfort of knowing his motor is solid at the power levels he wants to achieve then I say its worth it.. peace of mind is worth some money :cough::Looking at you XDI!::cough:

At somepoint, someone is gonna figure out the driveline... maybe... I hope... Its my next project as soon as the funds get re-established from my latest foray..

 

[SM105K]

Depends on his goals really... if he wants the comfort of knowing his motor is solid at the power levels he wants to achieve then I say its worth it.. peace of mind is worth some money :cough::Looking at you XDI!::cough:

At somepoint, someone is gonna figure out the driveline... maybe... I hope... Its my next project as soon as the funds get re-established from my latest foray..

I think your latter statement is a pipedream honestly. We are what 10 years into the gen 4 and 5 platform? People aren't racing and upgrading these platforms with the 6f55 trans.

GM:

• 2007 Saturn Aura XR (LY7 V6 Option)
• 2007 Pontiac G6 GTP
• 2007 Saturn Outlook
• 2007 GMC Acadia
• 2008 Saturn Aura XR (LY7 V6 Option)
• 2008 Pontiac G6 GXP
• 2008 Buick Enclave
• 2008 Chevrolet Equinox (Sport Option)
• 2008 Chevrolet Malibu (LY7 V6 Option)
• 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP
• 2009 Pontiac Torrent GXP
• 2009 Chevrolet Traverse
• 2010 Chevrolet Equinox (LF1 V6 Option)
• 2010 Cadillac SRX
• 2010 Buick LaCrosse (LF1, LLT V6 Option)
• 2012 Chevrolet Impala
• 2013 Cadillac XTS
• 2014 Cadillac ATS (China)
• 2010-2016 GMC Terrain (LF1, LFW, LFX V6 Option)

Ford:

• 2007 Ford Edge
• 2007 Lincoln MKX
• 2008 Ford Taurus
• 2008 Ford Taurus X
• 2008 Mercury Sable
• 2009 Ford Flex
• 2009 Lincoln MKS
• 2009 Ford Escape
• 2009 Mercury Mariner
• 2009 Mazda Tribute
• 2010 Ford Fusion
• 2010 Lincoln MKZ
• 2010 Mercury Milan
• 2010 Ford Taurus
• 2011 Ford Escape
• 2011 Ford Explorer
• 2012 Ford Mondeo
• 2016 Ford Focus with 1.5 EcoBoost

Out of the 37 platforms the 6f55 is in, three are "Performance" platforms? SHO, MKS, and Explorer Sport? The numbers for a massive aftermarket for the 6f55 trans are just not there for the investment.

Ford screwed up with this drivetrain. They should have made the SHO, MKS, and Explorer rear wheel drive bias with the ability to transer power to the front. Maybe use the same 6 speed auto in the Mustang? Who knows.

 

[StealBlueSho]

I think your latter statement is a pipedream honestly. We are what 10 years into the gen 4 and 5 platform? People aren't racing and upgrading these platforms with the 6f55 trans.

GM:

• 2007 Saturn Aura XR (LY7 V6 Option)
• 2007 Pontiac G6 GTP
• 2007 Saturn Outlook
• 2007 GMC Acadia
• 2008 Saturn Aura XR (LY7 V6 Option)
• 2008 Pontiac G6 GXP
• 2008 Buick Enclave
• 2008 Chevrolet Equinox (Sport Option)
• 2008 Chevrolet Malibu (LY7 V6 Option)
• 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP
• 2009 Pontiac Torrent GXP
• 2009 Chevrolet Traverse
• 2010 Chevrolet Equinox (LF1 V6 Option)
• 2010 Cadillac SRX
• 2010 Buick LaCrosse (LF1, LLT V6 Option)
• 2012 Chevrolet Impala
• 2013 Cadillac XTS
• 2014 Cadillac ATS (China)
• 2010-2016 GMC Terrain (LF1, LFW, LFX V6 Option)

Ford:

• 2007 Ford Edge
• 2007 Lincoln MKX
• 2008 Ford Taurus
• 2008 Ford Taurus X
• 2008 Mercury Sable
• 2009 Ford Flex
• 2009 Lincoln MKS
• 2009 Ford Escape
• 2009 Mercury Mariner
• 2009 Mazda Tribute
• 2010 Ford Fusion
• 2010 Lincoln MKZ
• 2010 Mercury Milan
• 2010 Ford Taurus
• 2011 Ford Escape
• 2011 Ford Explorer
• 2012 Ford Mondeo
• 2016 Ford Focus with 1.5 EcoBoost

Out of the 37 platforms the 6f55 is in, three are "Performance" platforms? SHO, MKS, and Explorer Sport? The numbers for a massive aftermarket for the 6f55 trans are just not there for the investment.

Ford screwed up with this drivetrain. They should have made the SHO, MKS, and Explorer rear wheel drive bias with the ability to transer power to the front. Maybe use the same 6 speed auto in the Mustang? Who knows.

LOL.. of course its a pipe dream... honestly.. at the investment stage I am in now with the SHO. I am still under $35K total... The trans would be a major undertaking.. something I want to do.. just not sure how fees able it is later on..

 

[SM105K]

LOL.. of course its a pipe dream... honestly.. at the investment stage I am in now with the SHO. I am still under $35K total... The trans would be a major undertaking.. something I want to do.. just not sure how fees able it is later on..

I have less then 27K in mine including a 5k transmission. My car would have had turbos, DP's, and HPFP if my trans didn't fail. Honestly, when I get my SHO to the level of yours I will be done. It will be a killer sleeper, and should go deep into the 11's.

If I want to go "fast" I will build another race car.

 

[yaycandy]

Yea before i chose an ls3 for my miata i wanted a 3.5l ecoboost. The engine is way wider then it looks when bolted up for rwd, just because of the turbos and manifolds. The sho would probably need completely reconstructed up front to allow it to even fit. Im not sure but it looks wider then it is long

 

[StealBlueSho]

I have less then 27K in mine including a 5k transmission. My car would have had turbos, DP's, and HPFP if my trans didn't fail. Honestly, when I get my SHO to the level of yours I will be done. It will be a killer sleeper, and should go deep into the 11's.

If I want to go "fast" I will build another race car.

Yea, I need to be happy with it... but always room for improvement yes? LOL! In short.. my next project car if I offload the SHO will be another sleeper... Chevy SS..

I really wanted one.. but couldn't justify the price tag on it.. I am still cheaper than a used Chevy SS at this point..if you compare mileage to mileage year to year...

 

[SM105K]

Yea, I need to be happy with it... but always room for improvement yes? LOL! In short.. my next project car if I offload the SHO will be another sleeper... Chevy SS..

I really wanted one.. but couldn't justify the price tag on it.. I am still cheaper than a used Chevy SS at this point..if you compare mileage to mileage year to year...

Honestly, the SHO is the perfect sleeper. People know what a V8 sounds like and well SS badging (unless your de-badge) is a give away for the performance. Ask people if they know what SS means. Then ask them if they know what SHO means. Case and point. I still have people ask me what my car is after they get drug at the Street Light to Street Light Grand Prix. It is very comical as you know. I just tell them to google SHO.

The SS is a cool car. It has a very mundane interior, and performs well. However it is just another V8 sedan with traction issues. I personally would rather have a G8. This is coming from a guy that drives an SHO, that has built numerous Chevy V8 platforms.

The funny thing is, I am not a Ford guy. I am a twin turbo, v6, AWD, 4 door kinda guy. Ford just happens to make what I want.

 

[yaycandy]

Honestly, the SHO is the perfect sleeper. People know what a V8 sounds like and well SS badging (unless your de-badge) is a give away for the performance. Ask people if they know what SS means. Then ask them if they know what SHO means. Case and point. I still have people ask me what my car is after they get drug at the Street Light to Street Light Grand Prix. It is very comical as you know. I just tell them to google SHO.

The SS is a cool car. It has a very mundane interior, and performs well. However it is just another V8 sedan with traction issues. I personally would rather have a G8. This is coming from a guy that drives an SHO, that has built numerous Chevy V8 platforms.

The funny thing is, I am not a Ford guy. I am a twin turbo, v6, AWD, 4 door kinda guy. Ford just happens to make what I want.

Me to, only ford i own. I thought id never be dumb enough to buy a ford because ive been a gm guy since birth. I just couldnt stop admiring the 2013 sho refresh. Still just love looking at it all day lol

 

[SHOdded]

The 6F55 is also evolving as it is mated to the 3.5EB and the 2.7 EB in the transverse platforms. Question remains whether the 2.7 version can become an upgrade for the 3.5 or not. Lot of unknowns. The PTU mated to the 2.7 version also has 33% greater fluid capacity.

 

[StealBlueSho]

The 6F55 is also evolving as it is mated to the 3.5EB and the 2.7 EB in the transverse platforms. Question remains whether the 2.7 version can become an upgrade for the 3.5 or not. Lot of unknowns. The PTU mated to the 2.7 version also has 33% greater fluid capacity.

Now that IS interesting..


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[76FoMoCo]

But less displacement...
Love the 2.7 in my wife's mkz but not a 3.5 in my sho(aka) her hand me down...that I paid for $???

 

[yaycandy]

I took pictures of the two different pistons that go in the SHO and published them on this website back in 2015. You can tell the PP by the appearance of the top ring and how it’s seated. Until the dealer can pull the piston out of the engine and show you a PP and then a non PP I suggest you stop talking about things you know nothing about. The limitation here is the dealers word and they obviously have that pulled pistons on both motors.

I had to brain and learn how the oil cooler works on the sho with it. The radiator brings the coolant to the oil cooler on the motor, that explains why the cop car can idle for long and floor it when need be. The oil is always cooled, even at idle. Which is better on the turbo and even the top ring being better also helps alot. I bought the oil cooler and everything for it from ford and i thought it was a air cooled one like on older vehicles. I didnt realize at first that its radiator cooled from coolant running up to it from the lower hose. Unless im wrong. I dont know im half asleep and figuring things out randomly lol

When i saw the oil cooler box thing and saw it mounted on the new oil adapter i thought to my self what kind of witchcraft is going on here and why does it have a radiator hose and then i was like ohhhh instead of the oil going to a air pass cooler, the coolant is brung to the oil to cool it. And then i was like ok i guess thats technically better and useful in traffic

 

[Jordan_R]

I know I am horribly late to this discussion, but I thought I'd add a tid bit of quick part numbers information. The police versions of the 3.5L ecoboost does in fact have different pistons.

Police Version:
Left - DA5Z-6108-AA
Right - DA5Z-6108-A

Civilian 3.5L ecoboost:
Left - AA5Z-6108-P
Right - AA5Z-6108-N


I have no clue the actual differences to them, but they are indeed different pistons.