Excessive KR

[High on Ethanol]

I'm curious, what point do you say...I should switch to AJP E30?

Only when I'm prepared to race. The AJPTurbo tune has more low end and harder shifts. It feels quicker up until around 100mph. I can't say for sure if it actually has more low end(never dynod), but seat of the pants and wheelspin indicate that it should.

So basically AJPTurbo E30 for flashlight drags, grudge matches, and stoplight hunting. If Brad could match the shifting of Gearhead, I'd probably forget to switch.

My next tune will be Ortiz, because I'm interested in what they have to offer. They seem to be exploring the details.

 

[802SHO]

Only when I'm prepared to race. The AJPTurbo tune has more low end and harder shifts. It feels quicker up until around 100mph. I can't say for sure if it actually has more low end(never dynod), but seat of the pants and wheelspin indicate that it should.

So basically AJPTurbo E30 for flashlight drags, grudge matches, and stoplight hunting. If Brad could match the shifting of Gearhead, I'd probably forget to switch.

My next tune will be Ortiz, because I'm interested in what they have to offer. They seem to be exploring the details.

I like that.

 

[Autox4fun]

This is a light throttle knock log from my car 11 Flex
Right around the flip spot "87,300" on the timeline.
65 mph, 29% pedal request, just starting to get into boost, 1,960 rpm.
Because I was watching it, as soon as I noticed it, I pulled out of the pedal.

zero wiring damage for the edge of the intake and the knock sensor cables.
Car is FBO with head porting, ARP head studs, bigger turbos, catted D/P and AD mounts (both)

 

[SHOthyme]

I have had issues with Casey's gas, so I don't go there, I also notice that if I don't splash in a few gallons of E in the winter I have the same issues with GH AO tune. So there is a difference between summer and winter gas, even if it's not the octane, it doesn't perform the same.

Now that I run E40, and always fill with top tier gas stations, I haven't had any issues with knock.

 

[stripSHO]

At this point I feel like it should be unanimous that the problem is the tune. They need to quit calling it auto octane. Auto Detonate seems more fitting.

 

[High on Ethanol]

I'd call it "if your gas is shit, expect shit."

 

[stripSHO]

I'd call it "if your gas is shit, expect shit."

Well then apparently Bryan, TX is the only place in the country with good gas.

 

[SHOthyme]

At this point I feel like it should be unanimous that the problem is the tune. They need to quit calling it auto octane. Auto Detonate seems more fitting.

If the gas is an issue it changes the tune on the fly, I see that as a fail safe, not auto detonate.

I found gas that works just fine with it in MN. (just not our crap winter gas)

 

[High on Ethanol]

Well then apparently Bryan, TX is the only place in the country with good gas.

That's odd, I'm not from Texas and havent traveled there either.

 

[stripSHO]

If the gas is an issue it changes the tune on the fly, I see that as a fail safe, not auto detonate.

I found gas that works just fine with it in MN. (just not our crap winter gas)

That "failsafe" was put there by Ford, not GH. We all have that protection. GH's tune is what causes it to come into play and leans heavily on this failsafe as a crutch. If the universal answer to a detonation-prone tune is "needs ethanol" then the tune is just over-aggressive for pump gas. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

My personal tunes never knock
Nobody with an AJP tune complains about knock
Nobody with an Ortiz tune complains about knock
Nobody with an Unleashed tune complains about knock
Nobody with an SSI tune complains about knock
At least 1/2 dozen members with GH tunes have complained about knock. Hmm...

@Autox4fun who's your tuner BTW? What do they say about your knock issue?

That's odd, I'm not from Texas and havent traveled there either.

No what's odd is that several people in different parts of the country going to countless different gas stations of different brands ALL allegedly have shit gas. But what's not odd is that I quit running the gearhead tune at the beginning of April, and haven't had a single knock issue or "shit gas" problem since. Gone are the days of searching across 3 counties for that one mythical gasoline that could please the almighty AO.

 

[High on Ethanol]

I've ran sheetz gas almost exclusively from dozens of different stations. I never had issues with GH with knock but then again I only ran auto octane until my ETHANOL tune came in. I mean who the **** runs gasoline when you can run ETHANOL.
Also I've had zero issues with Brew city Boost, but that could be because I'm on ETHANOL. When in doubt METHANOL it out.

P. S. The only knock I hear from S. S. I. is them knocking down records.
The only knock from un leashed is Torries quicker than auto reply revisions slamming the inbox
The only knock from AJP is his full inbox dumping the server.
I got nothing for Ortiz... I'll have to think about it.

 

[SHOthyme]

Like I said, once I started using top tier gas on the AO tune, I didn't have to add E to get my OAR to a perfect score.

 

[ridered74]

Central Ohio here. Don't run the AO tune much, usually only on long drives home from tracks more than an hour away, but never have any knock issues with the AO tune. I did have +6.5 kr with LMS 93 tune when I tried their updated V17 earlier this year, then switched and on same tank with AO tune had nothing but negative knock.

If it was a problem with the tune I would think everyone running it would have the same problem. I know a guy that was getting crazy positive knock with the AO tune. Found his EPP intake was banging against the hot pipe, both pipes had scratches on them. His downpipes were also banging together because they weren't installed properly and were too close together and were rubbing. His knock has gone down a lot since fixing those issues but he still has positive knock. Maybe Matt has the sensitivity turned up or something on the knock sensors? I dunno, but I would prefer false knock to having to rebuild my motor or having the car not shifting right and destroying the transmission.

 

[High on Ethanol]

Central Ohio here. Don't run the AO tune much, usually only on long drives home from tracks more than an hour away, but never have any knock issues with the AO tune. I did have +6.5 kr with LMS 93 tune when I tried their updated V17 earlier this year, then switched and on same tank with AO tune had nothing but negative knock.

If it was a problem with the tune I would think everyone running it would have the same problem. I know a guy that was getting crazy positive knock with the AO tune. Found his EPP intake was banging against the hot pipe, both pipes had scratches on them. His downpipes were also banging together because they weren't installed properly and were too close together and were rubbing. His knock has gone down a lot since fixing those issues but he still has positive knock. Maybe Matt has the sensitivity turned up or something on the knock sensors? I dunno, but I would prefer false knock to having to rebuild my motor or having the car not shifting right and destroying the transmission.

you bring up a lot of good points, especially about possibilities of other things causing false knock. i had maximum negative KR when i ran it, and i actually was suprised because i had been so used to e30 tunes from other tuners and i had it in my head that all non ethanol gas was low quality.

Also a lot of tuners make AO tunes, for example BCB has one called Highlander

 

[ridered74]

you bring up a lot of good points, especially about possibilities of other things causing false knock. i had maximum negative KR when i ran it, and i actually was suprised because i had been so used to e30 tunes from other tuners and i had it in my head that all non ethanol gas was low quality.

Also a lot of tuners make AO tunes, for example BCB has one called Highlander

There's some weird things out there with tuning for sure. I'd love to understand how my LMS tune knocked so badly on the same tank of gas that my AO tune had only negative knock with. Makes no sense to me, but I'm no tuning expert.

 

[Autox4fun]

That "failsafe" was put there by Ford, not GH. We all have that protection. GH's tune is what causes it to come into play and leans heavily on this failsafe as a crutch. If the universal answer to a detonation-prone tune is "needs ethanol" then the tune is just over-aggressive for pump gas. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

My personal tunes never knock
Nobody with an AJP tune complains about knock
Nobody with an Ortiz tune complains about knock
Nobody with an Unleashed tune complains about knock
Nobody with an SSI tune complains about knock
At least 1/2 dozen members with GH tunes have complained about knock. Hmm...

@Autox4fun who's your tuner BTW? What do they say about your knock issue?


No what's odd is that several people in different parts of the country going to countless different gas stations of different brands ALL allegedly have shit gas. But what's not odd is that I quit running the gearhead tune at the beginning of April, and haven't had a single knock issue or "shit gas" problem since. Gone are the days of searching across 3 counties for that one mythical gasoline that could please the almighty AO.

This is a with both Ortiz and Gearhead tunes

 

[stripSHO]

This is a with both Ortiz and Gearhead tunes

Without knowing any details I think the best way to start troubleshooting is to get one of them to yank a bunch of timing from that area of the tune and see if the knock activity goes away. If it goes away then problem solved. If it persists then it may be false knock or it might be something more sinister like LSPI. For what it's worth my GH tune ALWAYS knocked hard in the 2000-2500 rpm range. I've never once had that issue since I moved on.

 

[mattr66]

That "failsafe" was put there by Ford, not GH. We all have that protection. GH's tune is what causes it to come into play and leans heavily on this failsafe as a crutch. If the universal answer to a detonation-prone tune is "needs ethanol" then the tune is just over-aggressive for pump gas. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

My personal tunes never knock
Nobody with an AJP tune complains about knock
Nobody with an Ortiz tune complains about knock
Nobody with an Unleashed tune complains about knock
Nobody with an SSI tune complains about knock
At least 1/2 dozen members with GH tunes have complained about knock. Hmm...

@Autox4fun who's your tuner BTW? What do they say about your knock issue?


No what's odd is that several people in different parts of the country going to countless different gas stations of different brands ALL allegedly have shit gas. But what's not odd is that I quit running the gearhead tune at the beginning of April, and haven't had a single knock issue or "shit gas" problem since. Gone are the days of searching across 3 counties for that one mythical gasoline that could please the almighty AO.

I just saw this.... You are completely misrepresenting the facts. I often tell people that have fuel similar 91 octane to run a couple gallons of ethanol to get to full 93 octane power. The folks having major KR at wot have a different issue that normally isn't addressed by octane. You are mis-characterizing how the system works with the way I have calibrated it.

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[stripSHO]

I just saw this.... You are completely misrepresenting the facts. I often tell people that have fuel similar 91 octane to run a couple gallons of ethanol to get to full 93 octane power. The folks having major KR at wot have a different issue that normally isn't addressed by octane. You are mis-characterizing how the system works with the way I have calibrated it.

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Whatever man. I'm simply reiterating what's been stated within this thread as well as others. Have you bothered to read it? Nobody's talking about 91 octane as far as I can tell.

Marathon, Shell, Mobil, Valero, Speedway, BP, Citgo... all top tier fuels. I went through 93 octane from all these and others over the course of months and keeping the OAR below -.74 was a major chore with them all. And even then I had repeatable, predictable timing being pulled. Anyone that wants to say it's because of bad gas is welcome believe whatever they want, but that's absolutely not the case in my situation. I could count on +6 KR at 2000-2500 rpm and WOT like clockwork. +4 KR after each shift was commonplace, which I'm sure is at least partially due to the large 5 psi boost swings. Knock activity at mid RPMs became hyperactive in cold weather. Notice that I'm not the only one to call out the correlation between cold weather and heavy KR and OAR shift . Hmmm maybe there's something to that...

Others reported seeing as much as +7.5 KR, which is the max limit of the knock system and absolutely dangerous IMO, because at that point you've ran out of detonation protection. So I advise others not to chase their tail they way I did, to just let the OAR fall where it may and live with it. Hopefully that way at least they can keep the knock control system from losing control.

It’s not the gas, it’s the tune. If you really want to sell it as a feature rather than acknowledge and investigate a deficiency then that's fine, it's not my problem anymore so I really don't care either way.

 

[mattr66]

Whatever man. I'm simply reiterating what's been stated within this thread as well as others. Have you bothered to read it? Nobody's talking about 91 octane as far as I can tell.

Marathon, Shell, Mobil, Valero, Speedway, BP, Citgo... all top tier fuels. I went through 93 octane from all these and others over the course of months and keeping the OAR below -.74 was a major chore with them all. And even then I had repeatable, predictable timing being pulled. Anyone that wants to say it's because of bad gas is welcome believe whatever they want, but that's absolutely not the case in my situation. I could count on +6 KR at 2000-2500 rpm and WOT like clockwork. +4 KR after each shift was commonplace, which I'm sure is at least partially due to the large 5 psi boost swings. Knock activity at mid RPMs became hyperactive in cold weather. Notice that I'm not the only one to call out the correlation between cold weather and heavy KR and OAR shift . Hmmm maybe there's something to that...

Others reported seeing as much as +7.5 KR, which is the max limit of the knock system and absolutely dangerous IMO, because at that point you've ran out of detonation protection. So I advise others not to chase their tail they way I did, to just let the OAR fall where it may and live with it. Hopefully that way at least they can keep the knock control system from losing control.

It’s not the gas, it’s the tune. If you really want to sell it as a feature rather than acknowledge and investigate a deficiency then that's fine, it's not my problem anymore so I really don't care either way.

No you have something else going on.... Period you would be running no timing if the base tune needed 7.5 degrees pulled.

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