Engine quit and wont start

[masho95]

I have tried starting with the pedal to the floor. As I have stated in the original post, there are no codes. I have tried running the codes but the check engine light does not come on at all when jumped for KOEO tests. When I take the jump off, when I turn it to start it does come on as all of the lights are tested. The only other thing that I can think of is a lack of spark or a coil pack prob. Any good way to test this theory?
Thanks

Re-reading this post is making me think computer problem or wiring problem going to the computer. I'd be willing to bet you don't have any voltage input at the coil pack. Check for voltage at the coil pack inputs with a multimeter and see what you have.

 

[masho95]

My moneys still on the CPS..

He has a tach signal when trying to start the car. So if you mean crankshaft position sensor (CKP), by using the term CPS, then it's working on his car. If it wasn't he wouldn't be getting a tach signal.

 

[autobahnsho]

Last summer my car sputtered while driving (tach dropped to zero then came right back up) then was fine for a few more weeks.

Then it wouldn't start. The tach appeared normal. (300-500 while cranking)

But I replaced the CKP and it worked fine. (Until the next problem, the clutch.... )

 

[Zap]

I have tried running the codes but the check engine light does not come on at all when jumped for KOEO tests. When I take the jump off, when I turn it to start it does come on as all of the lights are tested.

Out of curiosity, does the CE light appear bright or dim when the car is turned to run, before you try to start. If you are not getting any response from the computer at all (even the 1-1-1, all OK codes) then I would suspect the computer or a bad ground causing the computer to not function properly. Make sure all the bolts that have ground wires connected to them look OK and are tightened down properly. You may even want to disconnect the wiring harness from the computer to verify that there is no corrosion, and reconnect it. If something isn't making contact, removing and replacing the harness could fix that problem.

 

[skipper]

What is a good way to check the coil packs? I saw the resposnse that said to check the inputs for voltage. Do I turn the key to the on position (not start) and check to see if I get voltage on the input?

Thanks

 

[skipper]

Ok I have checked the following:

Checked for spark by placing wire by engine lift bracket and turning over. Did not notice an arc. It was a bright sunny day though.

Checked 10A fuses with voltmeter just to be sure. They are good.

Check engine light comes on BRIGHT when turned to START and/or RUN.

Check engine light does NOT come on at all when doing KOEO test.

There is oil in the spark plug wells.

All grounds appeared to be intact.

Thanks

 

[v-tec killer]

Most times with the CKP yes you won't have a tac, but it has happened that there was a tac and the CKP (aka CPS) was bad more than once I have seen. :headbang:

 

[v-tec killer]

Ok I have checked the following:

Checked for spark by placing wire by engine lift bracket and turning over. Did not notice an arc. It was a bright sunny day though.

Checked 10A fuses with voltmeter just to be sure. They are good.

Check engine light comes on BRIGHT when turned to START and/or RUN.

Check engine light does NOT come on at all when doing KOEO test.

There is oil in the spark plug wells.

All grounds appeared to be intact.

Thanks

Fix the oil in plug wells problem. That is a big problem..

 

[skipper]

Will the CKP (CPS) cause there to not be a spark? I would think that there would still be a spark if the CPS is bad.

 

[skipper]

Any chance it could be the Distributorless Ignition System Module (DIS)?

 

[v-tec killer]

Any chance it could be the Distributorless Ignition System Module (DIS)?

Funny thing with these cars, it could be. 95% of the things wrong are one thing that they all are. 5% is anything! No mater what the "experts" say, yes it could be...

 

[skipper]

I just purchased a coil pack on ebay. Got it for $25. Will try that but will take about a week to get here. Is that a good possibility that that is the problem. Would it cause the car to die while driving and turn over but not start and no spark?

 

[v-tec killer]

Yes...

 

[v-tec killer]

Yes...

Could still be the CPS (CKP)....

 

[autobahnsho]

Will the CKP (CPS) cause there to not be a spark? I would think that there would still be a spark if the CPS is bad.

The Sensor tells the computer when to fire the plugs. Just depends, maybe it won't send any spark at all. BUT-

 

[masho95]

Any chance it could be the Distributorless Ignition System Module (DIS)?

Yes there is a chance that it could be a problem.

Will the CKP (CPS) cause there to not be a spark?

Yes.

But you still can't run codes which is really pointing to a computer problem. Check into finding out why you can't get codes before you try to diagnose anything else.

If you want to check your CKP sensor here are some directions for doing so posted by rangerj in the past:
All that having been said, here is how to test your CPS, (aka PIP or CKP) to control unit.

Connect a DMM or LED test light between the PIP wire (DB Dark Blue) and the negative battery terminal. Then crank the engine. The test light should blink, or the DMM should read betweem 3 to 7 volts.

If NOT, the crank sensor, crank sensor POWER or GROUND, or wiring is faulty.

PIP signal is OK, then next test, SPOUT to DIS module.

Connect DMM or LED to SPOUT wire( Y/LG Yellow Light Green stripe) and negative battery terminal, then crank engine. You should get 3 to 7 volts or the test light blinks. If NOT, the control unit or wiring( including connection) is faulty. If OK, next test.

Connect DMM or LED test light between the IDM wire(GY/O Grey/Orange stripe) and negative battery terminal and crank the engine. Again 3 to 7 volts or the LED light blinks. If NOT DIS wiring or module faulty. If OK, next test.

CID to Sensor. Connect LEDtest light between CID CS wire (DG Dark Green) and negative battery terminal and crank engine. The test light should blink. If not, CID sensor or wiring is faulty. If OK, next test.

COIL PWR. Connect LED test light between COIL PWR (VBAT) wire and negative battery terminal and put the key on. The light should be ON (LIGHT UP). If not COIL PWR wiring faulty.

DIS electrical tests concluded. Hope this helps, rangerj

 

[projectSHO89]

Will the CKP (CPS) cause there to not be a spark? I would think that there would still be a spark if the CPS is bad.

If there is no output from the crank sensor, you can never have a spark.

The crank sensor can easily be checked with a voltmeter or LED test lamp.

Steve

 

[masho95]

I don't see my last post so I'll put it up again...

Any chance it could be the Distributorless Ignition System Module (DIS)?

Yes there is a chance that it could be a problem.

Will the CKP (CPS) cause there to not be a spark?

Yes.

But you still can't run codes which is really pointing to a computer problem. Check into finding out why you can't get codes before you try to diagnose anything else.

If you want to check your CKP sensor here are some directions for doing so posted by rangerj in the past:
All that having been said, here is how to test your CPS, (aka PIP or CKP) to control unit.

Connect a DMM or LED test light between the PIP wire (DB Dark Blue) and the negative battery terminal. Then crank the engine. The test light should blink, or the DMM should read betweem 3 to 7 volts.

If NOT, the crank sensor, crank sensor POWER or GROUND, or wiring is faulty.

PIP signal is OK, then next test, SPOUT to DIS module.

Connect DMM or LED to SPOUT wire( Y/LG Yellow Light Green stripe) and negative battery terminal, then crank engine. You should get 3 to 7 volts or the test light blinks. If NOT, the control unit or wiring( including connection) is faulty. If OK, next test.

Connect DMM or LED test light between the IDM wire(GY/O Grey/Orange stripe) and negative battery terminal and crank the engine. Again 3 to 7 volts or the LED light blinks. If NOT DIS wiring or module faulty. If OK, next test.

CID to Sensor. Connect LEDtest light between CID CS wire (DG Dark Green) and negative battery terminal and crank engine. The test light should blink. If not, CID sensor or wiring is faulty. If OK, next test.

COIL PWR. Connect LED test light between COIL PWR (VBAT) wire and negative battery terminal and put the key on. The light should be ON (LIGHT UP). If not COIL PWR wiring faulty.

DIS electrical tests concluded. Hope this helps, rangerj

 

[F-22 Raptor SHO]

Im with Erik (Masho95) on this one. Deal with the computer first. You have to fix the biggest upstream problem that exists...if your brain doesnt work, getting a new leg isnt going to help you walk any better.

You can at least try this first: Disconnect the battery, then disconnect the harness going to the computer (its on the passenger side on the firewall). Inspect then reconnect it. See if there was perhaps a loose wire. If it doesnt help, find a replacement computer (say from a friends similar sho) and swap them. Until you get the computer to perform a KOEO test correctly and give you 111, then randomly replacing parts will only lighten your wallet.

You are putting the wire in the right slots yes?

check your computer serial number behind your glove box and start looking for a replacement on ebay (I bought one for 30 bucks).

 

[skipper]

What is a good way to check to see if the computer is actually functioning? Is there a way? I am using the correct jumper slots. The second from the left on the bottom and the single wire one. The battery was dead for about 6 mos so that may explain why there are no codes. Should I still get a 111 code? Thanks,

Mike