Debating my SHO future

[avatar28]

My 95 is getting pretty rough. I'm sort of at a juncture and trying to decide if it's worth spending the money to try to fix it right or just get out of the SHO game altogether, at least for now. Car is a 95 Green/mocha ATX with 188k miles.
Here's what I know it needs:

• Front 60k
• DIS (possibly, I think either it or more likely the CKS is causing it to stall and not restart, no spark)
• A/C stopped working this spring, might just need refrigerant or might be that I didn't fix it right when I fixed the compressor. It doesn't work especially well in any case.
• New suspension bushings all around.
• Remove the intake manifold and try to clean the carbon out of the EGR so it will stop throwing that code. I cleaned once and it came back a few thousand miles later.
• Slight coolant leak. I'm not sure where it's going.
• Camshaft seals need replacing (do it when I do the front 60k?)
• Other oil leaks? Rear main seal?
• New oxygen sensors
• Transmission is getting worse. It shifts really rough. I somewhat flushed it a bit over a year ago but it's getting worse again. I can try flushing and putting more Lucas in but not sure how much help it will be.
• Tires (If I'm going to spend the money to fix it up and drive it a few more years, will need new tires)
• New center console lid. My ex-wife was raging at me one day and tried to rip it open to show her ass and destroyed the latch in the process. I'm tired of banging my funny bone on it. It's not funny anymore.

Stuff it probably needs:

• Front sway bar links
• New shocks/struts (pretty sure they're also all shot)
• Power steering pump (something keeps shredding one of the ribs off the belt and the pulley on it doesn't seem quite aligned with the rest of them, I think that's why. I suspect this is also related to whatever kept destroying pulley bearings.)
• A/C system rebuild (pressures are not right, I would assume the compressor and/or evaporator are to blame)

Other things that I'd like to fix:

• roof upholstery is in really bad shape and could use replacement
• door seals appear to have been replaced and don't seal as well. The passenger side in particular has a habit of leaking when it rains. I don't think they use the fitted-type seals
• Muffler keeps hanging down on the left. Can't get the straps to work without them stretching and falling apart eventually. Weld that sucker up?
• Driver's seat needs replacing, it will not set all the way upright. I've mostly gotten used to it at this point but it'd be nice if it were more comfortable to sit in.
• Cover for the sunroof is broken/won't attach. I'd like to fix that and get the map lights back.
• Get the window tinting all scraped off and possibly replaced. It's bubbled up so bad it's really hard to see through the side and back windows.

Jeez, that's a heck of a list. And I'm sure there's probably more that I'm missing. Thoughts? Is this thing worth fixing anymore?

 

[sperold]

How much can you do yourself?
How is the rust situation?

I would fix it, but that is just me.

The only thing worrysome is the automatic, but if it still goes into overdrive, and a drain and refill helped before, I would give it a try. This time with a new filter / strainer.

When you take the intake off, you will be able to solve a multitude of small probems besides the exhaust gas recirculation device (like your coolant leak and possible vacuum leaks, that can have symptoms like O2 sensors). Just be willing to chase a few problems after the removal, as everyone seems to have a few issues when that happens.

 

[luigisho]

How many thousands you want to put into this thing? Tranny and a/c are expensive and suspension can add up quick if you replace everything. What are the other options you are considering? Any car over 12-15yrs old with average miles has mucho worn out parts unless it was well maintained.

 

[Xtelotatichl]

If you do decide to get out of the SHO game...I would recommend buying a 2011 Honda Civic Si Sedan...similar spirit to the SHO. Equally as fast...high revving, and it has four doors! Oh, and it's very reliable. I have a 2013 myself, not as high revving, but it has more torque. Still gives me the same feel my old SHO did back when I owned it.

 

[rubydist]

^ if your Civic gives you the same feel as your SHO did, you must have had a very tired SHO...

op, imho your SHO is worth fixing only if the body is straight and solid, and the paint is good, or if you have sentimental reasons for fixing it up and keeping it. otherwise, you will spend at least double what it is worth to fit it up, and that is if you do most of the work yourself. if you pay someone to do it, you will have way more than what its worth invested in repairs.

 

[shoray]

I'm at a similar place with my SHO. Do I feel it's sensible, not really. But I enjoy the car enough to go slow and acquire pieces and do my best to have a great car. I could buy another one in as good or better condition than when I finally finish, but it's not so much about the destination as the journey with these cars I think.

 

[sperold]

I have a different way of looking at a car's worth.
Plenty of people spend about $400.00 per month to have a reliable car with some kind of appeal. So rather than fixating on what a car can be sold for, thought can be given to this alternative concept.

You alread have spent more than the car is worth, because on the open market, they are not worth much.
But how often do you get to have a (former) supercar, for the price of salvage?

I have had a SHO as my daily driver for over 10 years. I found them to be super-reliable, once the bugs are ironed out. And that is contending with mercyless winters.

My reasoning is, I am avoiding $400.00 / month output while driving a desirable car (debateable) that is reliable (not debateable).

It is the desirable part you have to come to terms with.

 

[luigisho]

^ if your Civic gives you the same feel as your SHO did, you must have had a very tired SHO...

The referenced Si's have +- 200hp. No too bad considering they are also 1300lbs lighter. Also the v6 accords from the mid 2000's on-- have 280hp give or take. Obviously updated technology and much higher price point for a used car. So hard to compare them as equivalent but, after a few thousand in parts and labor, might be worth considering

 

[rubydist]

201 hp and 170 lb-ft, so even in a lighter car less acceleration than a healthy SHO. I've driven plenty of Civic Si cars - they only seem fast because they are so noisy.

 

[ISHOU]

You are in the same position many of us are. My 94ATX with over 203,000 can test my patience. Just replaced a bad starter for the 3rd time in 7 years. NAPA parts are no better than the other chains IMO. Was told it would be 2 weeks to get a rebuilt starter or I could get a Motorcraft rebuilt but with only a 2 year warranty. I'll take my chances with the Motorcraft. A few weeks before that my trunk lock, bolts and all, completely separated from the trunk lid. After picking my ass of the ground from laughter I thought how can I fix this. JB Weld-lasted one day. Gorilla Glue-lasted 6 blocks. Got a new lock from a pick and pull and some new bolts, cut an access hole with my dremel and the trunk lock is now attached for what should last the life of the car.

You have a lot to fix to make your car perfect if that's what you want. The AC and tranny are your big ticket items which will cost more to fix than the car is worth but cheaper than getting another good used car.

Yes I am very attached to my SHO after 15 years, especially since I have only had it to a shop for alignment. I managed to fix everything else myself. When the tranny blows or it spins a bearing, I will finally have a valid reason to move on, till then I'm driving like a SHO is meant to be driven.

 

[shobote]

I would move on and sell it for whatever with so many issues unattended to. Even if you will be doing all the repair work, it will cost FAR more money and time to fix it than to buy a well sorted out used SHO someone else bloodied their knuckles and emptied their savings account fixing up.

 

[Xtelotatichl]

201 hp and 170 lb-ft, so even in a lighter car less acceleration than a healthy SHO. I've driven plenty of Civic Si cars - they only seem fast because they are so noisy.

My SHO used to be a lot noisier than my current civic is...I did have flowmasters on it...so that's an obvious reason why. Obviously we differ in opinion about my current car, and also about my SHO. It was plenty fast, not a tired SHO at all. Simply put, there's newer reliable cars who can give you the same thrills that the first and second gen high revving SHO's can nowadays and are very reliable and cost effective.

 

[avatar28]

Sorry to disappear for a few days, had a lot going on lately. Going to try to respond to everybody.

How much can you do yourself?
How is the rust situation?

I don't think I'd be up to an engine/tranny swap or anything. But I've pulled the intake manifold a couple of times (did an upper 60, or most of it at least), I've replaced the AC compressor, etc. I think I could do most things given proper instructions and tools.
I don't think the previous owner drove it in the winter much and it was garage kept and it's a southern car. There's some rust, of course, it's over 20 years old but it's actually pretty clean considering

The only thing worrysome is the automatic, but if it still goes into overdrive, and a drain and refill helped before, I would give it a try. This time with a new filter / strainer.

I did replace the filter last time as well. And disconnected it at the T-line for the transmission cooler and used the engine to pump out as much as I could. I didn't get as much as I would have liked out though.

When you take the intake off, you will be able to solve a multitude of small probems besides the exhaust gas recirculation device (like your coolant leak and possible vacuum leaks, that can have symptoms like O2 sensors). Just be willing to chase a few problems after the removal, as everyone seems to have a few issues when that happens.

I cleaned the EGR passageway (and apparently killed my EGR in the process) and that fixed the EGR error for a while but it came back. The ECM is giving voltage high and voltage low codes on at least one of the O2 sensors, power is bad until the secondaries open and I'm averaging 16 mpg. Pretty sure the O2 sensors are bad too.

How many thousands you want to put into this thing? Tranny and a/c are expensive and suspension can add up quick if you replace everything. What are the other options you are considering? Any car over 12-15yrs old with average miles has mucho worn out parts unless it was well maintained.

Not a huge amount unless I decide that I want to make a project out of it and properly restore it to full running order. A/C I'm likely to leave unless it stops working completely and just recharge it a couple of times a year.

 

[avatar28]

^ if your Civic gives you the same feel as your SHO did, you must have had a very tired SHO...

op, imho your SHO is worth fixing only if the body is straight and solid, and the paint is good, or if you have sentimental reasons for fixing it up and keeping it. otherwise, you will spend at least double what it is worth to fit it up, and that is if you do most of the work yourself. if you pay someone to do it, you will have way more than what its worth invested in repairs.

The body seems to be solid though the paint is getting to be in pretty bad shape. No serious accidents so nothing is bent. I don't have any real sentimental attachment to it beyond what one normally has after driving a car for a couple of years.

I have a different way of looking at a car's worth.
Plenty of people spend about $400.00 per month to have a reliable car with some kind of appeal. So rather than fixating on what a car can be sold for, thought can be given to this alternative concept.

You alread have spent more than the car is worth, because on the open market, they are not worth much.
But how often do you get to have a (former) supercar, for the price of salvage?

I have had a SHO as my daily driver for over 10 years. I found them to be super-reliable, once the bugs are ironed out. And that is contending with mercyless winters.

My reasoning is, I am avoiding $400.00 / month output while driving a desirable car (debateable) that is reliable (not debateable).

It is the desirable part you have to come to terms with.

The car payment thing is something I've also considered. Even if I'm spending a couple hundred a month on maintenance, that's still less than a car payment. On the other hand, the car is IS old, not especially comfortable and definitely not reliable at the moment. I'd say it's broken down in a serious way that I've had to work on it probably two to three times a year on average. I know if I fixed it up it would certainly be more comfortable. You're right about the former supercar though. I've had probably a half dozen people or more ask me about it in a bit of awe. That's kind of a nice feeling.


So here's where I am. I WAS going to get out of the game, MAYBE keep this to fix up with my 16 year old so he could have something to drive once he gets his license but probably trade it in. I had settled on a 2013 Escape with the 2.0 Ecoboost (this one). But my girlfriend talked me off the ledge, convinced me that it was going to be really hard to make that payment each month and that if I could get a few things paid and she would also help make budget space to get a car then. So I'm looking now at needing to either fix this to get another 6 months to a year out of it or find something else cheap for $1000-1500 to drive for that long.

I know any car I can get for that is likely going to have a host of issues. My supervisor at work has an 03 Accord that I can have for $1500. That's probably the one I SHOULD buy but I think I would die a little bit inside each time I drive it. I did find a G3 SHO for that but I know nothing about it's history (auction car with no service records in the glovebox). Several people have advised me that I should walk away and stick with my car and that's PROBABLY what I will do but it's still tempting since I don't need a huge amount of time out of it.

 

[rubydist]

an 03 Accord with less than 250k miles and straight body for $1500 is a steal. people pay stupid money for old Hondas and they routinely run to 300k. Your only risk there is the age of the timing belt, because if that breaks, valves bend.

your issue is that it is nearly impossible to find a reliable car for $1500. newer cars are so expensive that anything in decent shape that works well is more than $2k. it is one of the unanticipated consequences of the cash for clunkers brainchild. so, you are ahead fixing the one you have now rather than dropping $1500 on a "new" old car, because you have no idea what you will have to fix on something that is new to you, while you have a pretty good idea of what needs done on your current vehicle.

 

[tery]

Keep it and fix it is my vote...I've only been in for a couple years, but there's a great value in knowing your car and what has and hasn't been done and who did it. . It's kinda like a house in that sense, they all need upkeep, but you know the squeaks and creaks of the one you live in. When you move on, ya kinda gotta start all over again. You're gonna pay either way.

My issue is taking long trips, I don't ever wanna sit on the side of the road, so if I'm going on a trip I take my most dependable car. Now...a trip to Colorado, that's another thing. Should a guy drive an F150 with 374,000 miles on it...runs like a top though ( has to have been rebuilt, but don't know)...and get crappy mileage of course... to Colorado...or would it be cheaper and a lot more guaranteed safe passage to fly out and drive a rental back to Minnesota..?? wringing hands,.....what to do what to do...

 

[avatar28]

Safer? Sure. Cheaper? VERY doubtful.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Denver to Minneapolis. That's right about 1000 miles. Let's assume the truck gets about 15 mpg and the price of gas is around $2.40/gallon (that's a slightly higher than the average right now). To go round trip you'd drive 2000 miles and burn around 135 gallons of gas. At our price of $2.40 you'd spend $325 in gas.

Let's look at the other way. Southwest flies between both cities. If you're flexible on your flights the cheapest I found was $59 one way. BUT, you want to rent a car so you're going to pay out the rear for a one-way rental. So something like $600 for a rental car to drive back. You'd also need to buy gas but it does much better, say about 32 mpg. That would be around 30 gallons, about $75 in gas. Let's call it $735 all together. That's not including any hotels.

If you want to rent a car you're better off renting it and driving it both ways. If you figure two days each way you're looking at around $300 for the rental car for four days. At 32 mpg that would be about 65 gallons and $155 in gas. Let's call it $450 for this method. (again plus at least a couple of hotel nights).

Honestly, if you're flexible enough on the dates, I'd say fly both ways. I found a date in July that had $69 each way going out on sunday and back the next day. That's way cheaper than driving.

 

[sperold]

Start with putting in new O2 sensors, as these cars respond favorably to good sensors. I think Denso is the original manufacturer and the Ford brand is good, but expensive, usually. I have had bad luck with other brands, including Bosch. Get RockAuto prices and decide. But put them in yourself, if you take it somewhere, you will get brand X sensors, and they will drop them 10 times before they get them installed.

If you have done a lot of the front 60 K, and had your intake off, you are more than qualified to proceed with anything else.

If you have the nerve, do the crank position sensor, or check the weep hole of your water pump, as that may be soaking it, and providing no spark until it dries out.

 

[avatar28]

If you have done a lot of the front 60 K, and had your intake off, you are more than qualified to proceed with anything else.

If you have the nerve, do the crank position sensor, or check the weep hole of your water pump, as that may be soaking it, and providing no spark until it dries out.

It was the top 60 K I did before but yeah. I'm pretty confident in my ability to do the front 60 and the CKS as well, especially given sufficient time.

I can't find a good deal on the crankshaft sensor, $90-100 is the cheapest I can find. Did find a good deal on a water pump at least, about $35 or so on Amazon iirc.

 

[avatar28]

Well I ordered most of the parts to finish my 60k. So I guess I'm committed for at least a while longer. Still need to buy the sensor and maybe I can find time some weekend to work on it and not have to burn a vacation day.

How big of a deal are the valve shims? Is that something I really even need to worry about.