Thinking about the future

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

There has been a lot of moving and shaking around my life lately and the trajectory of my projects have been called into question. my stable consists of my 13 SHO, my 05 F150, my wifes 15 Fusion soon to be my Daughters when my wife upgrades to either an XLT explorer or an ST (convincing her to splurge and get something fun). Lonely and rotting into the ground in the back yard is my 89 Mustang with a 460 lurking under the hood not fully installed. there is a lot of history with it and I've hung on for nostalgia and hopes of getting my son involved in cars. but reality is setting in and between my car and truck and the endless responsibility of homeownership I just dont have the time for it so its on the chopping block and im thinking about directing my go fast intentions to the SHO instead. to add to the reasoning, I had an incident with a 392 Challenger a couple weeks ago that was too close, I'd like that to not happen again. Also, a very generous friend gifted me my first performance mod at what was probably the perfect time for my state of mind.

Here's what ive mapped out in my head for some basic power gains.
Tuner
catless downpipes + x-pipe muffler in place of 3rd cat/resonator
GH intercooler
CAI- Thinking about making my own and completely eliminating the factory plastic pipes

I feel as a stage one plan this sets me up for the eventual larger turbos at which point i'll probably call it good, im keeping the suspension stock, ive already ripped the bumper off a couple times from parking stops so its low enough and i like the ride. at the end of the day it still has to be a daily driver. Brakes are getting drilled and slotteds and pads nothing crazy.

I'd like to think that this will get me pre turbo replacement close to the 400whp mark, my questions are: overall opinion, solid plan for a daily driver? best suggestions for eliminating drone from catless DPs? and has anyone made their own CAI? with a kit or otherwise? without having a MAF sensor in the pipe I only have to worry about the MAP close to the TB, already did VTA.

 

[BoSHO]

Hello JMS ... though I should defer to Kryptto (who's helping me) and others with way more technical expertise than I have, my wife went from a '17 Explorer Sport to a '21 ST - H&R Springs on both ... so, needless to say, I'd hope your wife goes ST ... major upgrade from the Sport; won't regret it, as I drive that damn thing every chance I get ... which begs the question, why not use it as a new SHO RWD-based platform? Ford!? ... way to screw up a great opportunity ... anyway, so long from S. Florida!

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

Hello JMS ... though I should defer to Kryptto (who's helping me) and others with way more technical expertise than I have, my wife went from a '17 Explorer Sport to a '21 ST - H&R Springs on both ... so, needless to say, I'd hope your wife goes ST ... major upgrade from the Sport; won't regret it, as I drive that damn thing every chance I get ... which begs the question, why not use it as a new SHO RWD-based platform? Ford!? ... way to screw up a great opportunity ... anyway, so long from S. Florida!

I guess the SHO game is alive and well in S.FL, maybe i need to make a trip at some point. I as well trust Kryptto's advice wholly, and he played a vital part in my mindset for performance upgrades. it sounded like a good open discussion topic, this forum has saved me a lot of headaches and to reach my goals that I think are realistic, a lot of people on here have already done it. what to expect with a less restrictive exhaust noise vs. power gains when emissions is not a concern, is a custom CAI worth the effort, etc.

As for the missed opportunity, there's a rumor that the town car might come back in a rwd platform, if that happens we can only hope it trickles down and the Ford sedan comes back. I think the Taurus name would be excluded though, I love my car but from a market standpoint I think Ford has had enough with the nameplate. Crown Victoria, Torino, and Fairlane are untapped nostalgia names that I could see Ford trying to reboot (Crown Victoria SHO, Fairlane GT, Torino ST). But yes I am hoping she goes with the ST, she was sold on a timberline and at that price point its close to the ST, and since she was in the car when I had my experience with the 392, along with her competitive nature, i think she might go for it since I am selling it as "the fastest one in the driveway" now its about money, xlt is about 10 grand cheaper, but honestly the red stitching on the seat might win her over in the end lol.

 

[BoSHO]

Amen to that! Forum is a blessing; a bunch of decent guys & gals sharing some good info and showing what power potential our 3.5 Ecoboost's have.

And I sure hope the rumor is true, as we might settle for something along the lines of the old Mercury Marauder; that would be nice. In fact, call it whatever ... just do it!

Otherwise, I shall root for her choosing the ST, though I chatted with a guy in a Publix parking lot about his Timberline. Looks really nice, real off-road chops, appears to be on the level of an ST Interior, with the only thing turning me off being the 2.3 4-banger. Good luck!

 

[SM105K]

Honestly what is your end goal? Do you want a street light sleeper that rarely gets attention is limited by powertrain and most likely be relegated to mid 12's full bolt on? Or do you want something that is more edgy and has the potential to do more. That is question you should be asking yourself.

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

Honestly what is your end goal? Do you want a street light sleeper that rarely gets attention is limited by powertrain and most likely be relegated to mid 12's full bolt on? Or do you want something that is more edgy and has the potential to do more. That is question you should be asking yourself.

Mid 12s would be nice, I want to be able to keep the stock maintenance level, oil every 5k, trans ptu and rdu every 20k-25k. It's my daily so until that changes I have to keep it within reason. It's fast enough in stock form I just want a liiiiiiiiitle more. If I ever try to push into 11s I probably won't be daily driving it anymore. Maybe 400whp is ambitious but 400 at the crank I think will get me where I want to be.

 

[kryptto]

@Junkyard_Mad-Scientist @BoSHO @SM105K

So, I totally agree with Sm105K, end goal? Want a sleeper mid high 12's.. low noise?

Do colder range plugs, SCT, leave stock cai, use performance filter. (Sound dampening) run catless DP's, and cut unmonitored - leave stock resonator, get rid of the baffled mufflers, my suggestion- magnaflows. The stock resonator will keep you quiet. Cattless dp's will allow the turbos to breath with little back pressure from the resonator. You can hear my car coming from miles... especially if I get on her.

**** the noisemaker, just good to get rid of the dumb design and possible leak.

Get the transmission mounts to reduce the possible wheel hop. And done, AJP tune.

Low cost sleeper....

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

leave stock cai

So I'm not opposed to all noise and I kind of want to hear the air being sucked in lol. I have the kn drop in already so I guess if the cone filter will hurt more than help for the sake of noise I'll just leave the airbox stock.

What's your opinion on the GH intercooler for my goals? Worth it to achieve 400 crank?

I also was thinking of going with the gh turbos when mine fail, no sense in leaving gains on the table if I have a tune by that point and I'm doing the work and spending the money anyway

 

[kryptto]

So I'm not opposed to all noise and I kind of want to hear the air being sucked in lol. I have the kn drop in already so I guess if the cone filter will hurt more than help for the sake of noise I'll just leave the airbox stock.

What's your opinion on the GH intercooler for my goals? Worth it to achieve 400 crank?

I also was thinking of going with the gh turbos when mine fail, no sense in leaving gains on the table if I have a tune by that point and I'm doing the work and spending the money anyway

The intercooler, is a nice to have keeping those temps down and achieving low 12's. I am at the point of draining my hpfp rail between 2nd & 3rd shifts. So time for a HPFP to push more. Next stop is e30 possibly while I decide.

 

[SM105K]

Mid 12s would be nice, I want to be able to keep the stock maintenance level, oil every 5k, trans ptu and rdu every 20k-25k. It's my daily so until that changes I have to keep it within reason. It's fast enough in stock form I just want a liiiiiiiiitle more. If I ever try to push into 11s I probably won't be daily driving it anymore. Maybe 400whp is ambitious but 400 at the crank I think will get me where I want to be.

My SHO went 12.56 at like 109 with an AJP E30 Tune, Plugs, 3 bar, and a K&N drop in. Literally nothing else, tune only. Full weight, with 1/4 tank of fuel, at an NHRA Track. At the time it made 391 hp and 470 tq to the tires. No full exhaust, no downpipes, no AD trans mounts, no GH intercooler, no upgraded HP fuel pump. I never went back to the track even after putting on all those upgrades. I would venture she might have run a 11.90 with everything. In the grand scheme of everything it wasn't worth the extra 4k (I had some fantastic deals) to maybe pick up 6 tenths, 25 hp and 75 tq.

Also, I am not ******** on any of those parts. They were the best of the best, and you should put AD Mounts on any SHO.

Something to think about.

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

My SHO went 12.56 at like 109 with an AJP E30 Tune, Plugs, 3 bar, and a K&N drop in. Literally nothing else, tune only. Full weight, with 1/4 tank of fuel, at an NHRA Track. At the time it made 391 hp and 470 tq to the tires. No full exhaust, no downpipes, no AD trans mounts, no GH intercooler, no upgraded HP fuel pump. I never went back to the track even after putting on all those upgrades. I would venture she might have run a 11.90 with everything. In the grand scheme of everything it wasn't worth the extra 4k (I had some fantastic deals) to maybe pick up 6 tenths, 25 hp and 75 tq.

Also, I am not ******** on any of those parts. They were the best of the best, and you should put AD Mounts on any SHO.

Something to think about.

See this is why I love this forum, if I side step the gh intercooler and intake, do some mild exhaust changes and focus on the tune and appropriate parts to go with I can probably meet my goals for a lot less money than anticipated. So:
AJP tune with sct tuner
Colder Plugs
3 bar map
AD mounts
Kn drop in
Catless dps (I'm stuck on these because florida and past experience)
And change out the baffled mufflers

Recipe for a strong performing daily driver that's not too obnoxious and comfortably in the mid 12s?

 

[kryptto]

See this is why I love this forum, if I side step the gh intercooler and intake, do some mild exhaust changes and focus on the tune and appropriate parts to go with I can probably meet my goals for a lot less money than anticipated. So:
AJP tune with sct tuner
Colder Plugs
3 bar map
AD mounts
Kn drop in
Catless dps (I'm stuck on these because florida and past experience)
And change out the baffled mufflers

Recipe for a strong performing daily driver that's not too obnoxious and comfortably in the mid 12s?

you got it.

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

On the catless dp topic, what's to gain by purchasing them vs old school cutting them out and welding in a pipe? Of course for racing purposes only, I just did a glance loom at prices and I can't help but thing $40 worth of pipe is a bargain by comparison since I have a welder

 

[kryptto]

On the catless dp topic, what's to gain by purchasing them vs old school cutting them out and welding in a pipe? Of course for racing purposes only, I just did a glance loom at prices and I can't help but thing $40 worth of pipe is a bargain by comparison since I have a welder

Nothing, if you have the ability and equipment, do it yourself.

 

[SM105K]

See this is why I love this forum, if I side step the gh intercooler and intake, do some mild exhaust changes and focus on the tune and appropriate parts to go with I can probably meet my goals for a lot less money than anticipated. So:
AJP tune with sct tuner
Colder Plugs
3 bar map
AD mounts
Kn drop in
Catless dps (I'm stuck on these because florida and past experience)
And change out the baffled mufflers

Recipe for a strong performing daily driver that's not too obnoxious and comfortably in the mid 12s?

If you use E30 there is no need for the GH IC because the ethanol cools the charge air within the cylinder and that makes it really knock resistant.

You don't need the upgraded intake pipes unless you buy upgraded turbos. The stock air box is cold ram air. If flows more with a K&N than the stock turbos can flow.

Catless DP's arent needed for what you what to do. If you are looking for sound.....the AD Mounts will make the sound you are looking for. I know it sounds weird...but they do.

Do you have the stock mufflers? If you do, keep them. They work amazing. Once you start messing with exhaust, the drone and crappyness sound of the EB 3.5 really shows its face.

 

[SM105K]

On the catless dp topic, what's to gain by purchasing them vs old school cutting them out and welding in a pipe? Of course for racing purposes only, I just did a glance loom at prices and I can't help but thing $40 worth of pipe is a bargain by comparison since I have a welder

There isn't. It will just cause a CEL and be a bit louder. There will be very little to no performance gain. Looking back, I spend around $1000 for a my custom exhaust (with stock muffers) and (used) PPE catted DP's. My SHO only picked up like 24 ft of tq to the tire. Car went from 391 hp and 470 tq to 391 hp and 494 tq. Not worth it in my opinion if you are staying stock turbo.

Buy the AD mounts, install them, and listen to the change in sounds.

Remember, the less you mess with stuff now, the less you have to mess with stuff later.

 

[Junkyard_Mad-Scientist]

So not planning on e30, only thing i can dependably get is 93. So should i be looking into an IC? If I achieve my goals with this set up I'll probably forego the larger turbos so I can leave the rest stock.

And as far as the catless DPs go its definitely not for sound but for less restriction and eliminating a future failure point. I dont want to do anything that will hurt the performance and if i leave the rest of the system intact im hoping the drone wont be unbearable. That said I'll probably wait on doing anything with the cats and address that later and just have the tune adjusted if I do it.

I will definitely look into the ad mounts, mine are newish from when ford did the water pump last year but it'll be on the list.

Since it would seem I'm saving on my exhaust what about dump valves? I'm thinking if I leave the stock mufflers I could add dumps right before they enter the muffler, put a switch in the car and open it up for a little more flow. That and since I saw copperhead built on Trucks I've always wanted them lol.

 

[kryptto]

So not planning on e30, only thing i can dependably get is 93. So should i be looking into an IC? If I achieve my goals with this set up I'll probably forego the larger turbos so I can leave the rest stock.

And as far as the catless DPs go its definitely not for sound but for less restriction and eliminating a future failure point. I dont want to do anything that will hurt the performance and if i leave the rest of the system intact im hoping the drone wont be unbearable. That said I'll probably wait on doing anything with the cats and address that later and just have the tune adjusted if I do it.

I will definitely look into the ad mounts, mine are newish from when ford did the water pump last year but it'll be on the list.

Since it would seem I'm saving on my exhaust what about dump valves? I'm thinking if I leave the stock mufflers I could add dumps right before they enter the muffler, put a switch in the car and open it up for a little more flow. That and since I saw copperhead built on Trucks I've always wanted them lol.

I am gonna stay with 93 as well and why I did the GH IC. I totally agree, less back pressure the better on the turbos. Why I suggest cutting out the third cat + keep resonator + possibly go un-baffled mufflers. Drone should be minimized. @SM105K is right - messing with exhaust will introduce new cabin sounds for sure and out the back. If you get a tune the CEL goes away, however I kept my catted pipes un-modified to put back in just in case of sale. The dump valves would need to after the resonator - this negating the benefits. The dump valves in the dp's will throw a CEL for rear o2's, but go away after you go back.

Look it's your car - to his point you don't need much to stay stock but **** kicking. The rest is time, money and effort. We all tweak what we wish to do for what it costs. SM105K is correct - she is your project car, make her unique.

I like my build for you - I think it will help with keeping her running smooth.

 

[BradM]

On the catless dp topic, what's to gain by purchasing them vs old school cutting them out and welding in a pipe? Of course for racing purposes only, I just did a glance loom at prices and I can't help but thing $40 worth of pipe is a bargain by comparison since I have a welder

FYI, PPE catless DPs are way bigger than stock DPs.

 

[SM105K]

So not planning on e30, only thing i can dependably get is 93. So should i be looking into an IC? If I achieve my goals with this set up I'll probably forego the larger turbos so I can leave the rest stock.

And as far as the catless DPs go its definitely not for sound but for less restriction and eliminating a future failure point. I dont want to do anything that will hurt the performance and if i leave the rest of the system intact im hoping the drone wont be unbearable. That said I'll probably wait on doing anything with the cats and address that later and just have the tune adjusted if I do it.

I will definitely look into the ad mounts, mine are newish from when ford did the water pump last year but it'll be on the list.

Since it would seem I'm saving on my exhaust what about dump valves? I'm thinking if I leave the stock mufflers I could add dumps right before they enter the muffler, put a switch in the car and open it up for a little more flow. That and since I saw copperhead built on Trucks I've always wanted them lol.

Are you against E30? Do you have E85 plentiful in your area? I thought it was readily available in FL. Mixing is super easy, MPG is rougly only a 15% reduction, and the difference in power between my 91 octane tune and my E30 was night and day. 91 octane tune made 366 hp and 414 tq to the tire. E30 was 391 hp and 470 tq to the tire. So on 93 you would probably see right in the middle, but still have to worry about IATS and timing being pulled.

There were plenty of guys running 12's on a stock IC with 93 back in the day. If you have the funds then I would do the IC if you are set on running a non e blend.

However, it truly isn't a need. Also if you have older turbos, the GH IC might actually hurt you. I lost HP when I installed the GH IC. My turbos could not keep up with the increase capacity of GH IC and even with the reduced AIT's there wasn't enough boost volume to make it up. That is why I pulled it and went back to stock. My boost pressure went back up, and my hp recovered.

The stock exhaust is 100% capable of flowing the mods you are planning. If you are looking for in cabin sound, the AD mounts are the ticket.

If you want to spend your money on exhaust cut outs by all means. However, do some research on the sounds that the EB 3.5 makes when you modify their exhuast. They sound like crap honestly. That was a huge reason why Ford went back to the V8 in the Raptors. I would hate for you hack up a good exhaust system, add cut outs, and then absolutely hate it. Also, you if buy a pair of cheap electric cut outs....they will fall apart and start leaking. Ask me how I know. Then you will have to replace them, esp on a daily if you are always opening and closing them. Just something to think about. I am fan of exhaust valves, and the big auto manufactures are really doing them right these days. My E63S sounds amazing with the AMG sport exhaust.

You might want to have an exhaust shop cut your stock mufflers and add flanges or vbands. That way you can hear it without mufflers and if you love it, then add a straight through muffler. If you hate it, then you can strap the stock mufflers back on. The cost would be minimal and you would get a good idea.