Cranks but no start? troubleshooting continues

[boat]

I just put in new injector o-rings back around Thanksgiving last year. It was the NAPA kit CRB-212069 (I think thats the right number), but the kit replaces the o-rings in the heads, the one that seals into the fuel rail, and the ring that spaces the injector properly to the rail. I haven't smelled gas prior to this no start issue, I think it is the unburnt fuel from trying to start it.

Injector leak....smell gas under the hood?

 

[93rev2sev]

You read too fast...re read my edited post...Injectors, stuck open and leaking into cylinder, can certainly cause a no start.

I'd be looking seriously at the injectors.

 

[boat]

I must say you correct, I do read to fast.

Well, here is what I did. I held the pedal to the floor and attempted to start and there was a LOUD backfire out of the intake that sounded like a gunshot blast, scared the **** out me snicker: bubba at me).

So, I attempted it again and the car ran fine, but very rich where you could smell the gas in the air.

Tom, good call.

You read too fast...re read my edited post...Injectors, stuck open and leaking into cylinder, can certainly cause a no start.

I'd be looking seriously at the injectors.

 

[boat]

So, it was suspected that I had a leaky injector. I removed the injectors from my 92 and put them in the 94 MTX to fix the problem since I didn't know exactly which injector it was. Got it back together and it started right up without having to hold the pedal down. :woo-hoo: This was done at about 2pm.

Drove my 94 home and parked it, went out to start it about 3 and half hours later, and I have the same no start issue. I gave it another crank and gradually put the pedal to the floor and the car started and ran fine without the smell of gas in the air. I came out not even an hour later, to start it and had to do the same thing to get it run. If I shut the car off for a few minutes, I can restart it with no problem. And there really doesn't seem to be any drive-ability issues associated with this once it is running.

So, would it be possible for a relay in the CCRM to stay open longer than it should or just never close and enough fuel is getting dumped into the cylinders after the car is shut off to cause this starting condition.

Could it possibly be the fuel pressure regulator? What are the symptoms of a bad or going bad regulator? I will search on this.

EDIT: I was thinking after I posted this, (uh-oh, usually can be dangerous :laugh_ti: )
I don't think it would be my regulator if I had 38 psi at the fuel rail. But what I am thinking, I have a schematic of the CCRM, and I am trying to remember if there was a diode just before the fuel pump relay in the CCRM. IF that diode was shorted, is it possible that voltage would remain on enough to that relay allowing the fuel to continue dripping or pooling just enough to cause the starting issue??? Thus, making my CCRM bad?

EDIT 2: I searched on these things in the first edit, but I am not coming up with much. Any help is appreciated.

 

[rubydist]

If you let it stand for the several hours that causes the hard start, does it still have fuel pressure? The symptoms you now describe are typical of a fuel pump with a leaking check valve, that lets the pressure bleed off over a few hours.
You can also check this by turning the key on until the fuel pump kicks off (several seconds), then turning the key off, and repeating that a number of times to see if it builds fuel pressure back up and then starts normally.

 

[boat]

Thanks, Fred. The check valve, is that the white piece that goes on the fuel tank somewhere in the neighborhood of the sender unit?

This car is making a liar out of me. I went out after I had typed what it was doing with the hard starting issues of having to open up the throttle body to get more air in to burn off the extra gas or something. I put the key in the ignition, pushed down the clutch pedal, and she started right up. This was after 2 hours of sitting. Then it sat overnight, I went out this morning, same thing, I put the key in the ignition, put the clutch pedal down and she fired right up, no problem at all. And this SHO IS NOT down on power what so ever. ran it up to 6500 rpm with no hesitation or fuel starvation at all. I don't know what to think. But I will enjoy it for now and just keep an eye on it and will check my plugs to see if I am burning rich in a day or so.

 

[bubba]

Mike I'd look into the fuel pump! Just to be sure that's not the thing that's getting bad, You did say at some point that it was making some bad noises.... Cough, cough....it's not the best pump there is also! Just saying

 

[rubydist]

iirc, the check valve is integral to the pump on these.

 

[boat]

Definitely something to look into and not rule out. As you have said before, everything is suspect.

Mike I'd look into the fuel pump! Just to be sure that's not the thing that's getting bad, You did say at some point that it was making some bad noises.... Cough, cough....it's not the best pump there is also! Just saying

But how would I rule out the fuel pump, replace it?

 

[rubydist]

But how would I rule out the fuel pump, replace it?

see post #25 for the fuel pump check valve. for the pump itself, you would need to monitor fuel pressure while the engine is running.

 

[boat]

Thank you, I will check those 2 things.

see post #25 for the fuel pump check valve. for the pump itself, you would need to monitor fuel pressure while the engine is running.

 

[boat]

I monitored the fuel pressure while the car was running. I had a consistent 27psi at the rail. I seem to remember that anything below 30 is not good, and the pump is on its way out.

The fuel pump has been gurgling some here lately, it seems reminiscent of a pump going out as I have heard a fuel pump going out on 2 sho's before.

I have noticed when I have started the car, since, it seems like it is not as strong, like there is some slight chugging. It would make sense if it is the fuel pump, and there only being 27 psi at the rail.

Then this morning, it did the same type of hard start, had to hold open the throttle to get it to start.

 

[Eric VerValin]

You should be getting pretty quick with those fuel pump swaps now..

 

[jayro]

You should be getting pretty quick with those fuel pump swaps now..

You could always put an access door in under the back seat.....takes 10 minutes to get to the pump now.

 

[boat]

I might just do that. Man, I am tired of dropping a gas tanks. It would be a lot easier. Wanna give me a hand, as I don't think I have all the tools to do it?

You could always put an access door in under the back seat.....takes 10 minutes to get to the pump now.

 

[Eric VerValin]

I have that angle grinder.... might need another wheel tho.. $2 LMK

 

[Wakeboy1337]

I'm worried that if i do that I'll blow myself sky high. How can you gentlemen be so confident with that?

 

[boat]

I haven't done that personally, but it would make sense to me if you were worried about that possibility, drop the tank from the car first so all of the fuel lines were out of the way.

So if you decide to drop your tank the first time, make sure you get some new bolts and clips as yours may be rusted, depending on where you are at. Also, read here. This explains how to do cut the hole in the floor under your seat, so replacing the fuel pump is a 10-15 minute job, not 2-3 hours.

I'm worried that if i do that I'll blow myself sky high. How can you gentlemen be so confident with that?

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well... speed... if you "score" it first at "normal speed" then set the speed at a constant low speed where it won't throw sparks and take your time. It'll grind it away just not quite as fast.