Clutch Time 3

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sdpatt

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I spent 2 hours after work on Thursday and 4 hours after work today taking things apart to replace the clutch parts and a few transaxle items. I have removed everything down through the flywheel. I will be replacing most of the clutch parts, the transaxle's blocking rings, input shaft bearing, the axle seals, shift shaft seal and input shaft seal and the engine's rear main oil seal.

I found pretty much what I expected in the clutch; the throwout bearing and pressure plate fingers had worn themselves out. I can see how the worn fingers had destroyed the now missing throwout bearing race on the finger side. The ball bearings were all still in place. It's not the throwout bearing that is wearing out, it is the pressure plate fingers. The worn and shortened fingers are rubbing against the bearing race rather than the wear surface that is provided for contact with the fingers. You will notice that the thick inner metal ring of the throwout bearing is still intact.

I also found a few things that made me just a bit angry. The most common was the excessively torqued bolting from the last clutch job by a transmission shop. Some of these bolts must have been tightened with a jumbo air wrench. Even my ample arms and an 18" torque wrench had trouble breaking a few loose. A couple of bolts that secure the plate over the transaxle just rounded in the socket rather than break loose. On the other hand, the pressure plate bolts came out with very little effort. Aren't these supposed to be Loctited? The throwout bearing quill was also not attached - it was sliding with the bearing. It may have been glued down at one time, but it sure isn't now.

You can also see from the comparison of the old and new discs that I easily had more then half of the original thickness still remaining after 81,000 miles. The flywheel and pressure plate surfaces were quite smooth with no scoring. I apparently was not very abusive with slipping the clutch. (I really didn't think I was).

The SHO NUT procedure and video were very helpful. I have made some of my own observations and added a couple of new items to the methods for the parts removals. It is just amazing to me how "easy" it is to remove major components of a car. The engine also looks quite odd hanging in the engine bay.

See the latest pictures in the Clutch & Transaxle album by clicking here and entering the password, 269k.

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>
 

SHO_Driver

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Yes your old clutch is still in great shape. I just can't get over how clean your subframe is! Maybe you'd like the challenge of a salt-belt clutch next? :)
 

RStalveyARFF

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Scott, I'll answer a few of your notations, etc to give you a better understanding. The loose parts you found in the case were the tabs that hold the sleeve onto the quill. I've found either a bent fork, misaligned release shaft (ie: felt washer or bushings missing or worn) or sometimes even the nylon pin missing will cause the TOB to bind. Enough of this can lead to the sleeve breaking free from the quill. Your pictures are like Deja vu to me! The last clutch I pulled out of my car, along with sleeve and TOB are EXACTLY like yours, only 70k+ less on them. My problem was I didn't loctite, and I didn't torque as tight as I was supposed to. It was my first clutch job ever and I definitely learned what and what not to do. But what happened was the bolts backed out slightly, and allowed the pressure plate to teeter, using the TOB as an axis point, as well as using it to hold the plate to the flywheel. My disc was also in excellent condition, and is currently in the car still, just with a pressure plate I rebuilt and a new TOB and sleeve. Best of luck with your project!
 

haydenm315

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I like that engine support! What is that 5 2x4's?
I think I can get the idea from your pictures, but is there anything special you did when making that thing?
 

DougLee25

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So you're saying that it only took you 6 total hours to get down to that point? That's really impressive. Our cars in the Northeast can take a hella long time. So how did you think the job went so far? Was it harder or easier than you expected? I am anxious to see some pictures of the inside of the tranny and how the internals look after so many miles. Keep us posted. Thanks!

Doug
 

RStalveyARFF

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Doug, you'll impress yourself after you do a few clutches too! First one I did took like a week after going eek! to all the nuts and bolts snapped due to New England weather. Now that I've learned tricks, picked up a few tools to combat the rust (namely an acetylene torch), a few others to help quicken the process (tranny jack is one) I can do a full clutch in about 6 hours time.
 

sdpatt

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I was busy today working with the transaxle and the clutch actuation gear. You can see the new pictures by clicking here, entering the guest password (269k) and selecting the Clutch & Transaxle album. I'm tired, but I still have to put the car back together. At least I feel like the transaxle and clutch are good for at least another 80,000 miles.

The gearsets, blocking rings, synchronizers and bearings were in amazingly good shape. There was no scoring or pitting in any of the bearings. The blocking rings showed that I hadn't been very ******* them, but I replaced them anyway. Replacing all of the seals should help keep the fluid in the case and the dirt off the outside of the case and the underside of the car. Replacing the throwout bearing, quill tube, shift fork and shift fork bushings was trivial compared to the transaxle work.

Today I also replaced the rear main seal, had the flywheel resurfaced, had the catalytic converter heat shields re-welded and cleaned and lubricated the shifter parts. Now I have to put it all back together. Hopefully by the end of tomorrow she'll be ready to roll another 60,000 miles until I have to get this dirty again.

<small>[ March 02, 2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>
 

sdpatt

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Yes. I divided the FWHP by .83 from the last dyno numbers in November that were measured before the (5th) 60K. I hope it is doing at least that well now.
 

93SHO_2

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I have done a clutch replacement, but I have never dismatled the MTX transmission. What special tools were needed to get the innards discombobulated like that?
Nice dual engine support, I used a single support and never did feel real safe.
 

sdpatt

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Between the coolant and oil leaks over the miles and years, that transaxle case was disgustingly filthy. I used several cans of intake cleaner - the cheap stuff. I only used blue shop paper towels to touch the interior of the transaxle.

There were only simple tools required to open and service the internals of the MTX. The most important tool was the SHO NUT video. It gave me a great deal of confidence before I opened her up. I was very pleased with what I found.

I even had to reassemble the fifth gear synchro after the three spring loaded keys popped out when I moved it by hand farther than it was designed to travel. The older Chilton's manual had a detailed service section with exploded diagram on each of the shafts in the gearbox. That was very helpful.

I finished up the reassembly job today and I must say that I am very, very tired. I will upload the pictures tomorrow. The clutch feels light and smooth and the transaxle feels a bit younger too. I hope these services will let me cover another happy few trips "around the world."
 

sdpatt

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I was finally able to upload the last of the photos of the clutch job to the PhotoIsland site. The server has been down the last two nights. You can see the installation of the clutch parts and the methods I used to lift the transaxle and the subframe. Click here, enter the guest password, 269k, and select the Clutch & Transaxle album. The photos are now in the order in which they were taken.

There has been one thing that has been troubling me about the behavior of the new clutch. When I first start pressing the clutch pedal to shift gears while rolling (does not happen while stationary), I hear a metallic rattle that sounds to me like the throwout bearing not smoothly interfacing with the pressure plate fingers. Once the pedal is farther depressed, pressing the TOB harder against the pressure plate, even before the clutch disc is decoupled, the noise stops.

I noticed during the installation that there was very little clearance between the flywheel teeth and the clutch bell housing at the starter location. The two alignment dowels on the engine are supposed to ensure that the transaxle is properly aligned with the crankshaft. How much movement is allowed by these dowels and is it possible the engine and transaxle are not properly aligned?

You can check the photo of the throwout bearing as installed to verify that it and its pin are mounted to the transaxle properly. I greased where it was supposed to be greased and cleaned where it was supposed to be cleaned. The noise is not present with the clutch released or the clutch fully depressed. What could be causing this noise?
 

DougLee25

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I wonder if A) you have a bad throwout bearing or B) it needs a few miles to wear in? You said it does it while moving only. This is weird, because if it was the throwout bearing, it would do it when stationary as well. I've had a SHO that did that. Hmmmm?? Do the blocking rings have to wear in? I guess I'm not much help, but I'm just trying to get the wheels turning.

Doug
 

sdpatt

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The shifting action is sharper with the new blocking rings and the clutch that can now be fully disengaged. The sound is like a rotating component rattling against an uneven surface or even the shift lever rattling against the cable end. The noise is traveling through the clutch cable into the passenger compartment.
 

DougLee25

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Did you torque and loctite the flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts as well? What if you're stationary and you rev the engine while pushing in the clutch? Does the noise happen then? I am just trying to determine wether the noise could be rpm related.

Doug

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: DougLee25 ]</small>
 

sdpatt

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Torqued them precisely as directed in (at least) two stages.

I don't hear the noise when the car is not moving. The clutch can be moved as desired without any unusual indications when the car is stationary through the full range of engine rpms.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>
 

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