Catless downpipes and 02 defoulers

[Ta2dResqr]

I don't think it will hurt his business that much. I think tuners that will tune for catless are becoming the minority.

Ortiz:
Ortiz Performance strives for compliance with the Clean Air Act, and will not disable OBD codes for deleting products such as cat deletes, EGR deletes, etc. This is non-negotiable, and "off-road use only" does not apply in this situation. All modifications by the end user will be the responsibility of the end user, and cannot be overridden by our tuning services.

Unleashed:
NOTICE: Unleashed Tuning WILL NOT tune ANY vehicle that has emissions equipment removed. And we DO NOT sell custom tunes that disable emissions control equipment or aid in bypassing any emissions control systems. We also DO NOT sell tuning devices or custom tunes for vehicles located in California. Orders placed that violate this notice will be canceled and refunded less a cancellation fee.

Livernois seems a little looser but states not all mods will be supported and mentions:
Many parts we sell are not legal for use on emission-controlled vehicles and do not carry a CARB exemption number. They are intended for off-road or racing use only. A civil penalty of $2500.00 can be imposed on the owner of a vehicle for each violation of the Clean Air Act. The only information to use to determine a product's status is written statements by the manufacturer of the products.

It is the purchaser’s responsibility to know which products are not legal for use on emission-controlled vehicles and realize that a civil penalty can be imposed on the installer for each violation of the clean air act. Any questions please contact the manufacturer of the product.

5-Star:
Off-Road Exhaust Systems: 5-Star can no longer provide custom tuning for off-road exhaust systems that delete catalytic converters. 5-Star can only tune for catted exhaust systems. However, 5-Star WILL NOT disable your rear oxygen sensors, which may result in a check engine light.

 

[802SHO]

I don't think it will hurt his business that much. I think tuners that will tune for catless are becoming the minority.

Ortiz:
Ortiz Performance strives for compliance with the Clean Air Act, and will not disable OBD codes for deleting products such as cat deletes, EGR deletes, etc. This is non-negotiable, and "off-road use only" does not apply in this situation. All modifications by the end user will be the responsibility of the end user, and cannot be overridden by our tuning services.

Unleashed:
NOTICE: Unleashed Tuning WILL NOT tune ANY vehicle that has emissions equipment removed. And we DO NOT sell custom tunes that disable emissions control equipment or aid in bypassing any emissions control systems. We also DO NOT sell tuning devices or custom tunes for vehicles located in California. Orders placed that violate this notice will be canceled and refunded less a cancellation fee.

Livernois seems a little looser but states not all mods will be supported and mentions:
Many parts we sell are not legal for use on emission-controlled vehicles and do not carry a CARB exemption number. They are intended for off-road or racing use only. A civil penalty of $2500.00 can be imposed on the owner of a vehicle for each violation of the Clean Air Act. The only information to use to determine a product's status is written statements by the manufacturer of the products.

It is the purchaser’s responsibility to know which products are not legal for use on emission-controlled vehicles and realize that a civil penalty can be imposed on the installer for each violation of the clean air act. Any questions please contact the manufacturer of the product.

5-Star:
Off-Road Exhaust Systems: 5-Star can no longer provide custom tuning for off-road exhaust systems that delete catalytic converters. 5-Star can only tune for catted exhaust systems. However, 5-Star WILL NOT disable your rear oxygen sensors, which may result in a check engine light.

See but what GH is doing though is above and beyond leaving the secondary o2 sensors running. Leaving them running, leaving them unaltered is compliant with the EPA. Refusing to tune a customer for the mere fact they don’t have cats doesn’t have anything to do with complying with the EPA. That’s absolutely insane. And let’s be honest with ourselves, upgrading downpipes is automatic results basically, no tune revision required, only used to be to prevent the check engine light to illuminate from the secondary o2 error code for obvious reasons. Nobody is being required to ensure readiness emission status for FS.

 

[802SHO]

So GH just wants to be more strict than the EPA…just bc they can? That’s pitiful. For the sake of masculinity then need to sit tfd in that regard….on second thought, he probably already does when he pees from the sounds of it. Probably females with bigger balls

 

[802SHO]

I can respect authority but when a person has none and is being more strict than the real authority I can’t stand that. So that’s on me.

 

[kryptto]

I can respect authority but when a person has none and is being more strict than the real authority I can’t stand that. So that’s on me.

I still say that the community of drivers that are making those changes are a very small minority. That said, it seems for now those who manufacturer off road is getting smaller and smaller. The decision by GH to go as far as their statement shows the money isn't worth it.

 

[Ta2dResqr]

See but what GH is doing though is above and beyond leaving the secondary o2 sensors running. Leaving them running, leaving them unaltered is compliant with the EPA. Refusing to tune a customer for the mere fact they don’t have cats doesn’t have anything to do with complying with the EPA. That’s absolutely insane. And let’s be honest with ourselves, upgrading downpipes is automatic results basically, no tune revision required, only used to be to prevent the check engine light to illuminate from the secondary o2 error code for obvious reasons. Nobody is being required to ensure readiness emission status for FS.

Unleashed Tuning WILL NOT tune ANY vehicle that has emissions equipment removed. - Same as GH. Take it off and we won't touch it.

At the end of the day, it is his business and the amount of risk he wants to take is up to him. I wouldn't tune people's cars commercially (or in any traceable way) to defeat EPA rules. Not in the current climate. He is obviously still making good money. He has the best direct-fit intercooler option with people constantly waiting for them. He has good turbo upgrades with people constantly wanting them. He has some of the best-shifting tunes and AutoOctane and is consistently listed in the top 3 tuners recommended on this and many other groups. That is just within the SHO community. From the looks of his site, F150 is where he makes his money.

 

[802SHO]

It’s very unfortunate. Just about all the builds I admire are emission violators including my own project. I don’t know the ins and outs of Matt’s decision or anyone else’s. From the side lines it looks crazy and appears out of line, misguided and unnecessary. Beyond compliant in my opinion. Regardless I got a little too passionate about it and shouldn’t have insulted the man.

 

[Ta2dResqr]

It’s very unfortunate. Just about all the builds I admire are emission violators including my own project. I don’t know the ins and outs of Matt’s decision or anyone else’s. From the side lines it looks crazy and appears out of line, misguided and unnecessary. Beyond compliant in my opinion. Regardless I got a little too passionate about it and shouldn’t have insulted the man.

I think your build is one of the situations that fall into the SEMA RPM Act. You have a legitimate race car. I am not sure but I do not think it sees or plans to see DD use anymore. The EPA's overreach and threatening vendors really hurt your project and make it even harder for you so, I can understand and agree with the passion and anger. The biggest problem is street cars/DD cars that don't need every last drop of power and abuse the off-road/racing parts. I don't think it would have come down so hard or so fast if it wasn't for the coal rollers. Now that the attention has been brought, the EPA sees searching forums, FB, Google, etc. as low-hanging fruit. An agent either wants to make a name for themselves or needs some easy work so, they target one of these companies, seize their records and just start sending fines out. Similar to what the ATF does for pistol braces, binary triggers, etc.

 

[908sho]

@802SHO @Ta2dResqr @kryptto

I would like to clear up some things that I was wrong on and clear GH name a bit. I ran to the conclusion that GH would not tune my car without cats prematurely without proper confirmation. What they did say is they cannot legally clear the codes with a tune that relates to emissions, however as I move forward with my build they would still tune my car for upgraded fuel systems and other performance parts I plan to add. GH did NOT flat out refuse to tune my car without cats. Im sorry for any confusion I caused.

As for me I am still putting on my no cat EPP pipes and will work on finding a good a way to clear codes myself. Thanks for any help and sorry again.

 

[Ta2dResqr]

@802SHO @Ta2dResqr @kryptto

I would like to clear up some things that I was wrong on and clear GH name a bit. I ran to the conclusion that GH would not tune my car without cats prematurely without proper confirmation. What they did say is they cannot legally clear the codes with a tune that relates to emissions, however as I move forward with my build they would still tune my car for upgraded fuel systems and other performance parts I plan to add. GH did NOT flat out refuse to tune my car without cats. Im sorry for any confusion I caused.

As for me I am still putting on my no cat EPP pipes and will work on finding a good a way to clear codes myself. Thanks for any help and sorry again.

PPE pipes. EPP Pipes are either the intake or hot side kits. Different companies.

 

[908sho]

PPE pipes. EPP Pipes are either the intake or hot side kits. Different companies.

sorry they are so similar I keep putting the wrong name

 

[kryptto]

sorry they are so similar I keep putting the wrong name

Yeah my signature has them correctly named.

 

[908sho]

Yeah my signature has them correctly named.

Im at work most of the time I post and its on my phone so i dont see the signature and am trying to type fast! Yall still know what I meant though!

 

[kryptto]

Im at work most of the time I post and its on my phone so i dont see the signature and am trying to type fast! Yall still know what I meant though!

LOL - I get it!