Brakes? What kind and where do I get them.

[Billy P]

I am due for some brakes. I have the 11.6 upgrade and need some performance brakes. Specifically, brakes that are good for driving at 120+ and braking hard when someone moves into the passing lane. I am not to familiar with whats out there and the posts I have found in the searches don't really traget this kind of speed.

Thanks
Billy P

 

[cyanmauve]

I hope you aren't planning to do too many 120-0 mph stops on those 11.6s, because I think that you're going to experience fade pretty quick. However, I would look at Carbotech or perhaps some EBC Red Stuff. You may not be able to find a non-competition pad with the kind of specs that you want. Carbotech and EBC pads are designed to be durable and operate at a wide range of temperature (including the high temperatures encountered in high speed stopping). Just a thought, but you might consider constructing some brake ducting to direct air onto the rotors. I'm afraid that after a few hard, repeated stops that the 11.6in rotors will overheat, maybe warp, and overload the pads (no matter how good they are). I don't want to discourage you, I just want you to stop!

 

[K-Dawg]

Sounds like its time to stop by http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/ and look at the SHO Stopper and SHO Stopper Jr. brake kits.

If you want to keep what you've got, get some Brembo rotors, Carbotech Bobcat pads, stainless lines, and good tires.

 

[Shoaz]

cyanmauve:
I hope you aren't planning to do too many 120-0 mph stops on those 11.6s, because I think that you're going to experience fade pretty quick. However, I would look at Carbotech or perhaps some EBC Red Stuff. You may not be able to find a non-competition pad with the kind of specs that you want. Carbotech and EBC pads are designed to be durable and operate at a wide range of temperature (including the high temperatures encountered in high speed stopping). Just a thought, but you might consider constructing some brake ducting to direct air onto the rotors. I'm afraid that after a few hard, repeated stops that the 11.6in rotors will overheat, maybe warp, and overload the pads (no matter how good they are). I don't want to discourage you, I just want you to stop!

I spent a couple of years doing track events on the 96 brakes, and now have Baer 12.5" brakes on the car. I gotta tell ya, no matter what you have on there you're going to have heat management problems. Braking a 3500lb car from >100mph makes a lot of heat, no matter what you have bolted to the knuckles.

The 96 brakes are fine for the track as long as you manage the system (i.e., don't repeatedly Banzai the corners), and keep the right pads on there. Even with bigger brakes you have to do the same (I boiled my fresh Castrol SRF fluid with the Baers eek! ). The bigger brakes just led you boil the fluid by braking later. In other words, I can brake with the Porsches now, just not every corner.

As far as braking from 120 on public roads, I can honestly say I hope you get caught before you hurt somebody. squint Keep that sort of thing on the track where everybody else out there is ready for you.

 

[K-Dawg]

He lives in Germany and, if I'm not mistaken, frequents the Autobahn.

 

[Shoaz]

K-Dawg:
He lives in Germany and, if I'm not mistaken, frequents the Autobahn.

That does make a difference! doh

If that's really the case I retract my admonishment. I see that he's indicating he's in Wurzburg (nice! beer beer ).

I'll also say, then, that since you're not likely to have to hit those 120-80mph braking events very often on the autobahn you'll probably be fine with the 11.6" rotors. It's only frequent repeated hard braking that builds enough heat to create problems. YMMV, of course, but it is always important to manage the brake heat when doing such things.

 

[ddawson]

Take a look at the Porterfield pads as well.

 

[NWGRN94MTX]

I just bought a set of Porterfield R4-1 compound. I haven’t installed them yet, but a guy in our club that open tracks with his S/C'ed 92 and the 12.5 Baer kit swears by this compound.

R4-1 Vintage Full Race Compound Developed using knowledge testing in the vintage racing community. Optimum uses for the R4-1, under conditions where very high friction is needed with minimal warm up time and in applications where there is difficulty in maintaining sufficient heat with conventional race pad compounds. Widely used on vintage GT and formula cars the R4-1 is also gaining popularity in off-road and rally-cross classes. Great modulation, consistent pedal feedback and rotor friendly at all temperatures as with all the other Porterfield Carbon Kevlar compounds.

To everyone, Tim at Porterfield said he will be making a limited run of rear pads in this compound if there is demand, they might stock it. Call Porterfield and talk to him if you are interested in trying a set of them. The 412 that I use on the front, and the 598 and 601 are a stock item in this compound, it's the rears that they don't make.

Porterfield Brake Pad Page

<small>[ October 15, 2003, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: NWGRN94MTX ]</small>

 

[Billy P]

You guys Rock! Thanks for all the responses. Yes, I am in Germany and drive about 23 miles to and from work on the autobahn Mon thru Fri. I don't do consistent hard braking, but every now and again a truck (trucks are regulated to 60 mph on the autobahn) pulls into the left lane within 10 lengths. The trucks here are a little bigger than ours and know they own the road. Anyway, the amount of stopping power needed to go from 120 to 60 is really felt and stock pads are not doing the job I desire. When I get back to the states next summer I am going to do the Baer or Wilwood upgrade. On the same line of thought, since I am here and getting items shipped is difficult (especially hard-parts), can someone tell me where I can order some of the brake pads mentiones?

 

[Shoaz]

NWGRN94MTX:
I just bought a set of Porterfield R4-1 compound. I haven’t installed them yet, but a guy in our club that open tracks with his S/C'ed 92 and the 12.5 Baer kit swears by this compound.

...

To everyone, Tim at Porterfield said he will be making a limited run of rear pads in this compound if there is demand, they might stock it. Call Porterfield and talk to him if you are interested in trying a set of them. The 412 that I use on the front, and the 598 and 601 are a stock item in this compound, it's the rears that they don't make.

Yikes! Beware about using these pads, they get a lot of their stopping power by grinding off substantial amounts of rotor material. I can outbrake Porsche Spec-944s with the 12.5" Baers and R-4s, but they definitely take their toll on the rotors to do it. And they generate a proptional amount of heat, too! eek! eek!

These are great track pads, but your rotors will become consumable items if you use them often.

I'd definitely avoid putting them on the rear. I keep R4-S (the street compound pads) on the front and rear, and put the R4s on the front for track events when I'm willing to liberate the requisite rotor material.

FWIW, YMMV, DTTAH, etc., etc.

 

[Shoaz]

Billy P:
On the same line of thought, since I am here and getting items shipped is difficult (especially hard-parts), can someone tell me where I can order some of the brake pads mentiones?

I'd suggest Porterfield R4-S (the street pads) if they're in your price range. You can order them off the website, http://www.porterfield-brakes.com Not sure about their overseas shipping policy. If you have the 11.6" rotors order the 598 pads. If you can, put them on a fresh set of rotors. Be careful to bed the pads and season the rotors before you expect them to really work well.

One of the things I find very cool about the R4-S Porterfields is that once they've surface loaded the rotors the rotors will look blue-ish. It's pretty cool, but very functional. wink

There are lots of other compounds that are less expensive and still work well. Poke around here and elsewhere on the web and you should be able to find plenty of options. PFCMs aren't a bad option, either, for that sort of application, but I think they're hard to find in a 598 size. I'm not surprised that generic pads don't hold up well in those conditions.

 

[K-Dawg]

Shoaz, what is the proper way to bed the pads and season the rotors?

Billy, I got my 96 Brembo rotors from Tirerack and my Bobcat pads from SHONUT. The rotors came in yesterday; damn those things are heavy! I may see a Wilwood upgrade in the future.

<small>[ October 15, 2003, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: K-Dawg ]</small>

 

[Shoaz]

K-Dawg:
Shoaz, what is the proper way to bed the pads and season the rotors?

Billy, I got my 96 Brembo rotors from Tirerack and my Bobcat pads from SHONUT. The rotors came in yesterday; damn those things are heavy! I may see a Wilwood upgrade in the future.

Pad bedding and rotor seasoning discussions can be found on SHOtimes, Baer's website www.baer.com, or at StopTech's website, www.stoptech.com.

And, BTW, I repent for my previous post about the R4s. NWGRN94MTX posted about R4-1s, which are a different compound, and I have no experience with them (might try 'em, though!)...

The R4s are mad grippy, but they're ******* the rotors (despite what the website says).

 

[crizzaSHO]

ok, so let me get this straight... You have an SHO in Germany??? Everytime you come down to the states you bring the car with you???

 

[gmorrell]

Shoaz
The R4s are mad grippy, but they're ******* the rotors (despite what the website says).

Permit me to elaborate, as I've been running Porterfield's R4 compound on 2 different track cars for many years now. The R4's are mad grippy when they're hot, they are a fantastic track pad. They are NOT grippy when they're cold. They have scared the absolute **** out of me a few times on the street when a furball appears in front of me. This is not the sort of pad compound you want on the Autobahn when a truck pulls into your lane.

R4's are also Gawd-awful noisy on the street, they make the most painful squeal I've ever heard from passenger car brakes, and like Eric said, they tear up your rotors.

R4-S is a much better choice.

 

[NWGRN94MTX]

Gary M.:

Shoaz
The R4s are mad grippy, but they're ******* the rotors (despite what the website says).

Permit me to elaborate, as I've been running Porterfield's R4 compound on 2 different track cars for many years now. The R4's are mad grippy when they're hot, they are a fantastic track pad. They are NOT grippy when they're cold. They have scared the absolute **** out of me a few times on the street when a furball appears in front of me. This is not the sort of pad compound you want on the Autobahn when a truck pulls into your lane.

R4's are also Gawd-awful noisy on the street, they make the most painful squeal I've ever heard from passenger car brakes, and like Eric said, they tear up your rotors.

R4-S is a much better choice.

There seems to be some confusion here, I posted about the R4-1 compound. Not the R4 compound. Has anyone ran the R4-1 compound?

<small>[ October 22, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: NWGRN94MTX ]</small>

 

[SHOSIG]

Billy P:
You guys Rock! Thanks for all the responses. Yes, I am in Germany and drive about 23 miles to and from work on the autobahn Mon thru Fri. I don't do consistent hard braking, but every now and again a truck (trucks are regulated to 60 mph on the autobahn) pulls into the left lane within 10 lengths. The trucks here are a little bigger than ours and know they own the road. Anyway, the amount of stopping power needed to go from 120 to 60 is really felt and stock pads are not doing the job I desire. When I get back to the states next summer I am going to do the Baer or Wilwood upgrade. On the same line of thought, since I am here and getting items shipped is difficult (especially hard-parts), can someone tell me where I can order some of the brake pads mentiones?

I beleive that the Tire Rack sells the EBC line of brake pads. They even sell slotted or cross drilled rotors also. Good luck!
Germany ws fun...I lived in Heidelberg for 8 years. beer beer

 

[PanamaPat]

Billy P:
I am due for some brakes. I have the 11.6 upgrade and need some performance brakes. Specifically, brakes that are good for driving at 120+ and braking hard when someone moves into the passing lane. I am not to familiar with whats out there and the posts I have found in the searches don't really traget this kind of speed.

Thanks
Billy P

What a treat that you get to run on the Autobahn's with the SHO!

Besides pads, have you tried disabling the rear brake bias valve (anti-dive)? This simple change will allow your rear brakes to work more effectively greatly increasing stopping power by allowing your rear brakes to get full brake pressure.

I understand this should not be done on SHO's without ABS as this can increase the chances of having the rear end come around during hard braking.

I did this to the stock 90 SHO and it greatly improved the braking effectiveness.

Pat

 

[MO-KAN SHO]

I'll be out in Germany this coming summer... Bitburg to be exact. Won't get to take the SHO, though, I doubt I'll even be allowed to drive. rant

ok, so let me get this straight... You have an SHO in Germany??? Everytime you come down to the states you bring the car with you???

I'm guessing he's military and is stationed over there in which case, the military will ship your vehicle back and forth when you move. My parents are over there now (dad's active duty Air Force at Spangdahlem) and the AF shipped their 02 Bonneville over. The bad part of that deal is the Bonnie's limited to 110mph. doh

 

[jedhead]

I also recommend these rotors:

http://www.frozenrotors.com/Search.bok?category=Ford+Car:Taurus+rotors

Bob