Brainerd International Raceway 5/4/16

[brucelinc]

I ran the MKS at Brainerd last night hoping for a new personal best time but did not get it. DA was in the 1500-1600 range - typical for Brainerd. Coyote Mustangs and Challenger R/Ts were in the 13 second range so I don't feel too bad. My car seemed to pull ******* the low end but sort of lay down at high RPM. It was pulling timing and I was seeing KR at WOT. I had never had that before. I likely needed higher octane fuel or just go back to a bit less aggressive tune.

 

[brucelinc]

Not a very good video but my wife is still learning how to operate the camera!

 

[SHOdded]

Whatever else it might be, can't say you are not consistent, Bruce! What octane fuel were you running? Any E85 mixed in?

I thought the camerawork was pretty good I see a SHO was pacing you?

 

[brucelinc]

I was running 3 gallons of 102 racing fuel mixed with 9 gallons of 93. Honestly, I am not sure of the quality of the racing fuel that I used. I was trying a new tune that my friends at Livernois sent me. My car seemed to like it up to about 5000 RPM but didn't seem to like it at higher revs.

The SHO was tuned by Unleashed he was running Meth. He ran a 13.1 to my 12.8. He didn't think his meth was operating correctly. Once he gets it sorted out, the results could be different....

 

[SHOdded]

I am sure you checked, but whoever decides to buy racing fuel at the track has to be certain that it is unleaded. Nothing like having your own can of racing fuel though

 

[brucelinc]

Good point about buying fuel at the track. I didn't do that. We have a station in the Twin Cities that sells 102 unleaded fuel with no ethanol. It is $9 per gallon. I have to drive 120 miles to the track so I have to have enough fuel in the tank to get me there and back. I ran the car nearly dry before adding the 102 and 93 mixture.

With the saddle tanks on these cars, I am afraid to add fuel at the track for fear it wouldn't mix properly. I think Mike explained once that you could have fuel in one side of the tank that doesn't get to the engine until the opposite side is nearly dry. Is that correct???

 

[SHOdded]

More of a concern if your tank is already 1/2 full. Essentially, fuel fills up on one side of the saddle, then overflows to the other. So the SAFEST thing to do when mixing, is of course to have the tank nearly empty like you did. The swirling action created by the pump helps mix up the fuel/additive, but if we could blend inside the tank, things would be SO much easier Blending outside the tank so you are only filling the blended mix is ideal, but not many can do it like that.

And you should fill up on the "additive" first prior to the fuel. So pour in the 102, then pour in the 93. Gives the best chance of an even blend throughout.

 

[brucelinc]

Yes, I started with 12 miles to empty, put the 102 in first and then the 93 so it should have been fine.

The best runs I have ever had was with the regular 4+X tune and straight 93. I never had WOT KR with that and it just felt strong all the way. I think I will leave the race tunes and race fuel mixing to others.

If I could ever run in a really low DA with no head or side wind it would be nice, too.

 

[rubydist]

if it is pulling timing, then you need more octane or less timing advance.

typical Ford tunes avoid knock like the plague, so it pulls a lot of timing very fast if it sees knock. I don't know about your specific tune, but that is typical for Ford tunes. so, you need to make sure its not pulling timing because it will **** your power as soon as it sees knock in most cases.

 

[EcoBoostSHO]

Good times Bruce! I haven't made it to the track with the V10 yet and I don't obviously know what's specific about your car but one thing I am seeing is that I'm getting part throttle knock which is affecting my LOR and therefore also affecting the timing at WOT. Now that said I don't see any knock when I'm flooring it...

 

[brucelinc]

EcoboostSHO, I am sort of interested in the "fun races" at Rock Falls instead of their test/tune. I don't know exactly how it works. I want to get over there and try out the resurfaced track, though.

Brainerd is fun and it is only $25 on Wednesday nights. The DA never seems very friendly there but it is a very professional operation.

 

[EcoBoostSHO]

I would love to do that as well time permitting. The new track surface looks nice assuming it grips!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

 

[brucelinc]

Rock Falls is having a 1/2 day test session next Saturday. I am going to watch the weather and if it is cool and dry, I might go over there and run early in the day. I would sure like to get into the 12.6 range!

 

[Ben R]

You both beat my 13.6 at 103.76. Installing the 4x and going to try again. Got to get the reaction times better too.

 

[brucelinc]

Ben, I am not sure what tune you were running at Brainerd this week but you might just want to reflash it - especially if you have been running the same tune for awhile and just driving it gently through Twin Cities traffic. It seems like the car adjusts to easy driving over time and then is a bit lazy when you go for maximum performance.

Also, remove the plastic engine cover and the weatherstripping at the back of the hood. Helps keep underhood temps down. Always raise the hood between runs to let heat escape. I pop the hood release at the turn-around and drive back to the pit area with the hood cracked open.

I don't know if you have a way to measure how much boost you are generating but take a good look at all hoses and piping to make sure you have no boost leaks or wastegate issues.

You will get to the 12s.

 

[Ben R]

I believe I was running just the 4 tune. Anthony sent me the 4+ and the 4+X tune today. I can't believe they sent them on a weekend. Great customer service at Livernois. Working on getting the down pipes and methanol next. I know anything else I buy is coming from livernois though. Those guys are the best.

 

[brucelinc]

The 4+X is excellent. I am always in the 12s with that tune and it runs great on 93 octane fuel. You will love it.

Your car will be a beast with the additional mods you are talking about.

And yes, Anthony is a good guy.

 

[rubydist]

Good times Bruce! I haven't made it to the track with the V10 yet and I don't obviously know what's specific about your car but one thing I am seeing is that I'm getting part throttle knock which is affecting my LOR and therefore also affecting the timing at WOT. Now that said I don't see any knock when I'm flooring it...

at wot, the pcm is not using closed loop to control fuel, rather it is putting more fuel in (richer than stoich) to increase torque because on nearly all spark ignition engines, max torque is around 12.5:1 rather than 14:1 which is stoich. also at wot the spark timing is not as advanced as part throttle.

at part throttle, the pcm is controlling the a/f in closed loop, looking at the oxy sensors to know if its lean or rich and adjusting the fuel. and at part throttle, the spark timing is advanced farther than at wot.

the combination of those is why you can have knock in some situations and not others. the base spark advance number is plucked from a table - think of an excel spreadsheet with engine speed on one axis and engine load on the other axis. there is a different value for base spark advance in each cell on that spreadsheet. so, to help your tuner know how to fix your part throttle knock, you will want to tell him/her at what engine speed and what throttle setting (light, moderate, slight acceleration, moderate acceleration, etc.) you are experiencing the knock. there could be just one or two of those cells where the base spark advance needs to be changed to eliminate the part throttle knock.

 

[EcoBoostSHO]

at wot, the pcm is not using closed loop to control fuel, rather it is putting more fuel in (richer than stoich) to increase torque because on nearly all spark ignition engines, max torque is around 12.5:1 rather than 14:1 which is stoich. also at wot the spark timing is not as advanced as part throttle.

at part throttle, the pcm is controlling the a/f in closed loop, looking at the oxy sensors to know if its lean or rich and adjusting the fuel. and at part throttle, the spark timing is advanced farther than at wot.

the combination of those is why you can have knock in some situations and not others. the base spark advance number is plucked from a table - think of an excel spreadsheet with engine speed on one axis and engine load on the other axis. there is a different value for base spark advance in each cell on that spreadsheet. so, to help your tuner know how to fix your part throttle knock, you will want to tell him/her at what engine speed and what throttle setting (light, moderate, slight acceleration, moderate acceleration, etc.) you are experiencing the knock. there could be just one or two of those cells where the base spark advance needs to be changed to eliminate the part throttle knock.

I understand that lots of cars default to open loop under WOT - my GTP did. The modern SHO however does not. It uses the wideband O2 sensors in closed loop as feedback and makes adjustments as necessary to maintain the appropriate Air fuel ratio. There is even a PID for open/closed loop and it indicates the car is in closed loop at WOT. (It goes open loop during Decel and warm-up...that's it). I know all about timing tables and why you would obviously have less spark at WOT then part throttle...

The LOR is learned Octane Ratio and it is a multiplier to the overall timing number the car is targeting based on the lookup. So if your LOR is less than 1 (well actually greater then -1) then it is pulling timing at WOT. There is an article by COBB tuning you can Google if you like.

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[SHOdded]

Lots of factors to consider when you see knock on the SHO. V10 or V9? Are you still mixing E. At what %age, EBSHO? Then there's, generally speaking, knock sensor wiring, PCV blowby, spark plugs, coils, oil in plug well, etc etc etc in addition to the tune. So always check off the basics, then look at the tune.