Blown Head Gasket?

[autobahnsho]

Scenes from our previous episode:
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=26145
...

Well, last month when I was driving to go test-drive my van, I knew I should take it easy, because of the smoke problem.

--you can skip this part if you want---
BUT, it's a 30mile drive on the autobahn. I was nice on the way there, hitting 100mph only once.

On the way back a US-plated 2000+ Mustang GT convertible went blowing by and I couldn't let that happen, now, could I? So I followed him at 120mph for a while. He lost me a little on the straights but he backed off on the curves so I kept up for around 10-15 miles.
---. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ---

THEN I get a HUGE cloud of smoke out the back around the same time the car makes this awful ticking/thumping noise under the hood, and all power was gone.
As I was waiting for the tow truck I was looking under the car- there was a small amount of water leaking out. Maybe just some condensation off the A/C? When we pulled it off the truck there was a small puddle of oil under the block.

I let it sit until today, fearing a spun rod bearing.
Today I figured, maybe it was just a big oil leak and the timing belt or something easy broke. So I pulled the tb cover off, the belt was nice and tight.

The INTAKE was full of AntiFreeze and Oil. To the point that some had gotten on the air filter!! I popped off the front valve cover, there was a little antifreeze near where the pcv hose comes in.

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So, either something broke in the Throttle Body, allowing antifreeze into the engine, or I blew the headgasket??

Does the headgasket have anything to do with antifreeze in the engine?

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I'm assuming that if that much antifreeze got in, I still need to check the rod bearings for damage. Along with changing oil and antifreeze.

THANK YOU for any help that you can give me.

 

[pjtoledo]

Yes the head gaskets have something to do with coolant. Both coolant and oil pass from block to head(s), thru the head gaskets. Very bad news.

Perry

 

[autobahnsho]

I'm hoping there's a chance the block and internals are still ok.

I desperately want to save the car- There's about a .01% chance I could find a new engine or the $$ to pay for a rebuild over here.

A headgasket I could try...

 

[DHMag]

3.0 head gaskets are still available, for a decent price if i recall. i think Auto-Zones website lists several brands, like FelPro, ROL, as well as Valucraft with prices ranging from 52 each to 18 each. or buy an upper gasket set from NAPA for less than 200 and replace both head gaskets, all valve stem seals, cam seals, valve cover gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, et al.

youre on the right track, and DO check the rods and mains for damage. you can rebuild the engine while it still sits in the car. your most difficult task though, would be replacing mains with the crank still in the engine. its tricky, but it can be done.

Best Of Luck To Ya.

 

[CheckerSHO]

...your most difficult task though, would be replacing mains with the crank still in the engine. its tricky, but it can be done.

Best Of Luck To Ya.

I'll second that being tricky...i replaced mains and rods in mine just to be safe instead of just doing rod bearings...all went smooth except for the front upper main, that was tricky to get out even after loosening the belts(including timing belt)...im assuming because of the oil pump

 

[autobahnsho]

BOTH headgaskets?
I should have known that this car would have more than one...

When I ran compression tests two weeks before shoBOOM #6 cylinder was the only one that was 200-205 on the gauge. All the others were more like 210-215 on this particular gauge.

1. Is it possible that only one blew?
2. Am I going to have to take the heads completely off to find out what's up?
3. Is there any way to double check the throttle body wasn't dumping antifreeze into my intake? The intake was "super peanut-buttery" though.
4. The oil problem that was making my smoke problem could be related to this, right?

5. I had run a few weeks on bad spark plugs. The engine was missing like crazy. After I got new ones it took a few weeks for the smoke to show up. I'm guessing that it's related, though. Then the car was running decent, even when it was smoking. There was a slight loss of horsepower, but like I said, compression tests seemed pretty good. I had assumed that the valve stem seals were at fault. Now that I put it all together, it WAS using up a LOT of oil while it was smoking. So this all leads me to believe head gasket.
6. BUT the red oil light came on once after this smoking thing started, and then came on a few times while at low idle. (I'd rev a little and it'd go away.) Oil level was decent.
7. Do spun rod bearings ever cause any sort of coolant in the intake issues? I'm guessing it actually got sucked up there by back pressure after the engine failure..

 

[rangerj]

AutobahnSHO,

OK, kick back, relax, and put on your thinking cap. You have oil and coolant leaking into the valley and elsewhere. First question is, where is it coming from and why?

Blown head gasket? OK, do the compression test again. A blown head gasket will show up if you have a blown head gasket. You can also do a pressure test on the cooling system. This will also tell you if you have a pressure leak in the system, which could also point to a head gasket problem.

If the compression test indicates good compression, this does not mean that the problem is not a head gasket. The head gasket could be in good shape around the cylinders, but be blown around an oil and/or coolant hole. This is why both test, compression and coolant pressure, are important to do.

Please get you fingers off of the panic button! Let's do the diagnostics, find the problem, then determine what needs to be done to fix it.

Lastly, from our last conversation, are you sure that you are getting proper crankcase ventilation? I do not think that this is the cause of your current problem, but it could easily have contributed to the problem. rangerj

PS, I have been out of the building for about 10 days, but I'm back now and we will get you through this.

 

[autobahnsho]

Thanks guys..
And Ranger, I hadn't even thought of doing another compression test. Makes sense, though, except I don't think cranking the engine would be good on the lower half, if it is having issues....

I had checked the PCV hose, and didn't really know what else to check ventilation-wise. (Dumb question, why isn't there a pcv hose on the rear bank?)

What kind of tools do you use for a coolant pressure test? Sounds like fun! Or not.

 

[CheckerSHO]

Thanks guys..
And Ranger, I hadn't even thought of doing another compression test. Makes sense, though, except I don't think cranking the engine would be good on the lower half, if it is having issues....

I had checked the PCV hose, and didn't really know what else to check ventilation-wise. (Dumb question, why isn't there a pcv hose on the rear bank?)

What kind of tools do you use for a coolant pressure test? Sounds like fun! Or not.

To do a compression test you only crank the engine over(ignition system disabled) so it shouldnt hurt anything beyond whats already hurt.
As far as a coolant pressure test, you'd need a coolant pressure tester that hooks to the radiator cap and has a pump on it and a gauge. Could probably pick one up at a basic auto parts store for not too much.

The PCV system only needs one fresh air inlet, and thats the hose on the front valve cover. The hose that sucks the vapors from the crankcase is the big hose that attaches to the bottom of the throttle body, and runs down in the valley below the intake.

Edit: Is there coolant in the oil(milkshake lookin mixture on the dipstick)?

 

[rangerj]

Good catch checkersho. Oil in the coolant, OR coolant in the oil, is also an indication of a blown head gasket . So, is there any oil floating in the coolant? Is there any coolant in your oil pan?

You can drain the oil into a (container) pan and check for coolant. It is heavier than the oil and will sink to the bottom of the pan. You could just loosen the oil pan bolt and let it drip. The heavier coolant should be at the bottom of the oil pan and should drip out with the oil. Try this first.

Check your throttle body gaskets. It sounds like a blown throttle body gasket allowed the coolant to get blown into the intake as well as the crancase vent hose that attaches to the TB and the valve cover. If this happened it wouls also send coolant into the engine via the oil return holes. rangerj

 

[revhardSHO]

It does sound like you have interbreeding between your coolant system and your lubrication system. It may very well be a headgasket, however from what you have described; the sudden cloud of smoke, along with the strange engine noises, it could be far more serious, such as a broken rod pushing the piston through the head and damaging the water jacket, or anything else similar. Again, do some more troubleshooting, pressure test cooling system, check oil for coolant, etc. You could also try cranking the motor over to see if it sounds right. If it was a bent rod or sheered crank you could definitly hear that something was out of wack (no pun intended). RCM sells 3.0L SHO headgaskets on ebay @ 39.99 per set. You may want to contact them and see if they can ship overseas to you for a few more $$$.

Keep us updated

 

[autobahnsho]

to the members of the SHO Forum.
You guys are great!

In this last week I've gone from very depressed about the whole mess to excited to get it fixed. I'll take a look at it this afternoon and check out the throttle body and dipstick.

I plan on dropping the oil pan next week to look at it.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[autobahnsho]

AARRRGGGHHH.

I went and took another look at it. Peanut butter in the throttle body passages, gasket was good.

BUT the dipstick is COMPLETELY STUCK. It's physically caught on something. This can't be good. I'm guessing all the stuff inside the oilpan is toast.

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So I'm betting it's time to part it out.

UPS wants $500 to ship 150lbs. overseas. Unless I could find someone moving here that could include a SHO motor in their household goods shipment I can't afford to get a new engine.

And I absolutely can't afford to pay a machine shop to do any work on the car.

 

[revhardSHO]

AARRRGGGHHH.
BUT the dipstick is COMPLETELY STUCK. It's physically caught on something. This can't be good. I'm guessing all the stuff inside the oilpan is toast.
QUOTE]

Ouch. Have you tried cranking it over?

 

[sho thing]

AARRRGGGHHH.
BUT the dipstick is COMPLETELY STUCK. It's physically caught on something. This can't be good. I'm guessing all the stuff inside the oilpan is toast.

You should at least take the oilpan off and have a look up in there. Better for it to be a know quantity, even though there might be some initial horror.