About bleeding brakes I pump the pedals 10x and then hold it down while the other person unscrews the bolt, then they tighten it back up...repeat 10x. Is there anything else I need to know about bleeding the front brakes?
Bleeding Breaks
- Thread starter shodup
- Start date
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jedhead
New Member
If I bleed the brakes, I always bled all four wheels starting from the wheel furthest from the master cylinder first working my way closer to the master cylinder. Since the brake fluid is hydroscopic (absorbs water) it is a good idea to have the complete brake system flushed every couple years with fresh fluid for best braking performance. In order to flush the brake system in an ABS equiped car you need a tool that will cycle the ABS pump.
Bob
Bob
kzoosho
Holset HX52
Now where can i get one of those from?jedhead said:
godspunk32
'98 Sable LS
The dealer. And its expensive.
Actually, the best way to do it would be to flush the brakes, then go out and do a few ABS stops on a dirt road, to get the fluid moved out of the ABS pump, and new fluid moved in. Flush the brakes again, and you should be good to go.
I flush my brakes once or twice per year. It is definitely the best thing to do for braking!
JR
Actually, the best way to do it would be to flush the brakes, then go out and do a few ABS stops on a dirt road, to get the fluid moved out of the ABS pump, and new fluid moved in. Flush the brakes again, and you should be good to go.
I flush my brakes once or twice per year. It is definitely the best thing to do for braking!
JR
Shoaz
Studly dood
kzoosho said:
They used to show up on ebay from time to time for about $25. Search on Thexton Teves ABS or Thexton bleeder or something like that.
Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THEXTON-TEVES-IV-BRAKE-BLEEDER-133_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35625QQihZ014QQitemZ330076040424QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
jedhead
New Member
http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=796
This is the one I was going to buy, but decided to take the car to the dealer since they were avertising a brake flush service and Ford Heavy Duty Brake Fluid is one of the best.
Bob
This is the one I was going to buy, but decided to take the car to the dealer since they were avertising a brake flush service and Ford Heavy Duty Brake Fluid is one of the best.
Bob
klauspass
New Member
Bleeding Brakes
See this subject come up every year and thought I would share with you all my experiences and what finally worked for me after considerable frustration.:wave:
Not to diminish any of the advice in this or other threads, my 1990 SHO has just been re-shoed on all four corners including the master cylinder. Revamp included front bearings and hubs, all hoses, all calipers, all rotors, all pads and a master cylinder.
I was foolish, for my assumption was that the parts would be in stock at the auto store when I ripped everything out. I pretty much waited a week to get everything in and by that time all the remaining brake fluid was on the garage floor. After reassembly, the brakes would not bleed, all I got was fluid and air.
Since my ABS was on the blink and the shuttle valves were not being excercised, I assumed again that I was bleeding straight. Pedal remained soft through 3 quarts of brake fluid. The fluid needed changed anyways. My economy brake job turned into a vast expansion of tools to my already SHO tool collection including a vaccum bleeder, Alldatadiy.com subscription (screw chiltons) and and ABS Bleeder.
Below is the FORD recommended bleeding sequence. On the 1990 SHO, the master cylinder is a tandem unit. The primary (rear) circuit feeds right front and left rear brakes. The secondary circuit (front) feeds left front and right rear brakes.
Bleeding with Antilock Brakes
The master cylinder and hydraulic control unit must be bled using ABS test adapter T90P-50-ALA or equivalent. If this procedure is not followed, air will be trapped in the hydraulic control unit which will eventually lead to a spongy brake pedal.
To bleed the master cylinder and HCU, disconnect the 55-pin plug from the ABS module and install the ABS test adapter to the wire harness 55-pin plug.
Place bleed/harness switch in bleed position.
Turn ignition to ON position. At this point the red OFF indicator should turn on.
Push motor button on adapter down to start pump motor. The red OFF indicator should turn off and the green ON indicator should turn on.
Pump motor will run for 60 seconds once motor button is pushed. If pump motor must be stopped before 60 seconds, press abort button to turn motor off.
After 20 seconds of pump motor operation, push and hold valve button down for 20 seconds then release.
Brake lines may be bled in the conventional manner. Ensure lines are bled in the following sequence:
Right Rear.
Left Front.
Left Rear.
Right Front.
The ABS test adapter T90P-50-ALA can be purchased from RCM at http://home.earthlink.net/~rcm_automotive/index.html. Just e-mail Mark. I believe I paid $89 and I know he has a few left. Or you can by a Thexton unit for $200. However, Thexton no longer manufactures this unit and when they did, it sold for $39.00. RCM is also an excellent source for parts and quite reasonable I might add.
Just for purposes of clarification regarding the automatic ABS brake bleeders.......
Both the Thexton and FoMoco T90P-50-ALA HCU brake bleeders do a tad bit more than open valves. During the sequence that the units are acivated, the brake bleeders run the HCU accumulator pump for a timed 60 seconds, pressurizing the brake system to as high as 3000psi. After 20 seconds you press a button to shuttle the valves electrically for 20 seconds. If there is air in the HCU and the Master Cylinder, you will see it bubble in the Master Cylinder reservoir. After 40 seconds, you release the valve button and the adapter runs the HCU for another 20 seconds to represurerize the accumulator and then turns off at 60 seconds.
Some folks say you can achieve the same level of service by simply driving the vehicle, repeatedly braking and activating the ABS and then bleed again. That will work, however, I would not recommend this procedure.
Edit/Delete Message
Response to Marcus.....................
Sorry for the late response, just back in town. Yes, regarding the third line. But the third line is only a supply line to replenish the HCU reservoir. The dirt you see or the change in fluid color comes from the HCU fluid reservoir back through the exiting master cylinder lines. The master cylinder reservoir continually supplies the HCU reservoir.
The HCU consists of a valve body assembly, pump, and motor assembly and brake fluid reservoir. During normal braking, fluid from master cylinder enters the HCU through two inlet ports. The fluid passes through four normally open inlet valves, one to each wheel. When the ECU senses wheel lock, the ECU produces a pulse to the appropriate inlet valve that closes that valve. This prevents any more fluid from entering the affected brake. The ECU senses the wheel again; if the wheel is still decelerating the ECU then pulses open the normally closed valve that decreases pressure trapped in line. This last part is important, this is the pulsating sensation that you feel in the pedal when the ABS is activated.
The ABS test adapter T90P-50-ALA, opens all four channels. It basically pumps HCU reservoir fluid back through the master cylinder. The HCU reservoir is replenished from the master brake cylinder reservoir. If the HCU was never activated for the recommended bleeding process, you will probably have quite a bit of OEM fluid in the system. The HCU reservoir is small but has roughly 16” x ½” in line that connects to the Master brake cylinder reservoir. Combined, you probably have better than 6 ounces of fluid. At best, if you activate the system by repeated breaking, you would have to have all four wheels lock for a minimum of 20 seconds and you would be lucky to move 1 ounce.
I personally evacuate all the fluid from both reservoirs, refill, bleed the Master cylinder, run the test adapter TWICE, evacuate the dirty fluid from the Master cylinder reservoir, refill and then vacuum bleed the entire system as described in the previous thread. I end up using 2 quarts of brake fluid in this process. This by the way is not just the SHO ABS but in principle applies to all ABS systems.
Hydraulic systems generally don't move fluids; you pressurize and transfer movement from the brake pedal to the compression of the calipers. Air in your system reduces fluid volume. This results in extra pedal travel or a soft pedal.
You move fluid when evacuating or bleeding.
See this subject come up every year and thought I would share with you all my experiences and what finally worked for me after considerable frustration.:wave:
Not to diminish any of the advice in this or other threads, my 1990 SHO has just been re-shoed on all four corners including the master cylinder. Revamp included front bearings and hubs, all hoses, all calipers, all rotors, all pads and a master cylinder.
I was foolish, for my assumption was that the parts would be in stock at the auto store when I ripped everything out. I pretty much waited a week to get everything in and by that time all the remaining brake fluid was on the garage floor. After reassembly, the brakes would not bleed, all I got was fluid and air.
Since my ABS was on the blink and the shuttle valves were not being excercised, I assumed again that I was bleeding straight. Pedal remained soft through 3 quarts of brake fluid. The fluid needed changed anyways. My economy brake job turned into a vast expansion of tools to my already SHO tool collection including a vaccum bleeder, Alldatadiy.com subscription (screw chiltons) and and ABS Bleeder.
Below is the FORD recommended bleeding sequence. On the 1990 SHO, the master cylinder is a tandem unit. The primary (rear) circuit feeds right front and left rear brakes. The secondary circuit (front) feeds left front and right rear brakes.
Bleeding with Antilock Brakes
The master cylinder and hydraulic control unit must be bled using ABS test adapter T90P-50-ALA or equivalent. If this procedure is not followed, air will be trapped in the hydraulic control unit which will eventually lead to a spongy brake pedal.
To bleed the master cylinder and HCU, disconnect the 55-pin plug from the ABS module and install the ABS test adapter to the wire harness 55-pin plug.
Place bleed/harness switch in bleed position.
Turn ignition to ON position. At this point the red OFF indicator should turn on.
Push motor button on adapter down to start pump motor. The red OFF indicator should turn off and the green ON indicator should turn on.
Pump motor will run for 60 seconds once motor button is pushed. If pump motor must be stopped before 60 seconds, press abort button to turn motor off.
After 20 seconds of pump motor operation, push and hold valve button down for 20 seconds then release.
Brake lines may be bled in the conventional manner. Ensure lines are bled in the following sequence:
Right Rear.
Left Front.
Left Rear.
Right Front.
The ABS test adapter T90P-50-ALA can be purchased from RCM at http://home.earthlink.net/~rcm_automotive/index.html. Just e-mail Mark. I believe I paid $89 and I know he has a few left. Or you can by a Thexton unit for $200. However, Thexton no longer manufactures this unit and when they did, it sold for $39.00. RCM is also an excellent source for parts and quite reasonable I might add.
Just for purposes of clarification regarding the automatic ABS brake bleeders.......
Both the Thexton and FoMoco T90P-50-ALA HCU brake bleeders do a tad bit more than open valves. During the sequence that the units are acivated, the brake bleeders run the HCU accumulator pump for a timed 60 seconds, pressurizing the brake system to as high as 3000psi. After 20 seconds you press a button to shuttle the valves electrically for 20 seconds. If there is air in the HCU and the Master Cylinder, you will see it bubble in the Master Cylinder reservoir. After 40 seconds, you release the valve button and the adapter runs the HCU for another 20 seconds to represurerize the accumulator and then turns off at 60 seconds.
Some folks say you can achieve the same level of service by simply driving the vehicle, repeatedly braking and activating the ABS and then bleed again. That will work, however, I would not recommend this procedure.
Edit/Delete Message
Response to Marcus.....................
Sorry for the late response, just back in town. Yes, regarding the third line. But the third line is only a supply line to replenish the HCU reservoir. The dirt you see or the change in fluid color comes from the HCU fluid reservoir back through the exiting master cylinder lines. The master cylinder reservoir continually supplies the HCU reservoir.
The HCU consists of a valve body assembly, pump, and motor assembly and brake fluid reservoir. During normal braking, fluid from master cylinder enters the HCU through two inlet ports. The fluid passes through four normally open inlet valves, one to each wheel. When the ECU senses wheel lock, the ECU produces a pulse to the appropriate inlet valve that closes that valve. This prevents any more fluid from entering the affected brake. The ECU senses the wheel again; if the wheel is still decelerating the ECU then pulses open the normally closed valve that decreases pressure trapped in line. This last part is important, this is the pulsating sensation that you feel in the pedal when the ABS is activated.
The ABS test adapter T90P-50-ALA, opens all four channels. It basically pumps HCU reservoir fluid back through the master cylinder. The HCU reservoir is replenished from the master brake cylinder reservoir. If the HCU was never activated for the recommended bleeding process, you will probably have quite a bit of OEM fluid in the system. The HCU reservoir is small but has roughly 16” x ½” in line that connects to the Master brake cylinder reservoir. Combined, you probably have better than 6 ounces of fluid. At best, if you activate the system by repeated breaking, you would have to have all four wheels lock for a minimum of 20 seconds and you would be lucky to move 1 ounce.
I personally evacuate all the fluid from both reservoirs, refill, bleed the Master cylinder, run the test adapter TWICE, evacuate the dirty fluid from the Master cylinder reservoir, refill and then vacuum bleed the entire system as described in the previous thread. I end up using 2 quarts of brake fluid in this process. This by the way is not just the SHO ABS but in principle applies to all ABS systems.
Hydraulic systems generally don't move fluids; you pressurize and transfer movement from the brake pedal to the compression of the calipers. Air in your system reduces fluid volume. This results in extra pedal travel or a soft pedal.
You move fluid when evacuating or bleeding.
Last edited:
3000psi??? come on. these systems work under 1000psi. I'd say the wheels are locked up at 700psi. or less. To force bleed you need a couple of psi. Has anyone heard of gravity bleeding? It is very uncompicated. It takes a little longer, but not that long. The beauty of it is you never have to pump the brake.One guy can do it. No special tools. Pumping the master cyl. repeatativly dry is one sure way of blowing out a master.
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