95 ATX Cranks But Won't Start When Engine is Hot

[redsho1995]

Hey guys I'm new to the forums, and I apologize in advance if this question has been answered already. My car starts immediately in the morning, but after I've driven around for 30-45mins and the engine is hot the car cranks but won't start, or start and then **** immediately. My guesses are crankshaft sensor or possibly engine coolant temp. sensor. What do you guys think? - Tim

 

[kevinspann]

Any check engine light?

 

[Sammy~D]

possible fuel pressure regulator

 

[rubydist]

yup, common problem with many threads here on that.

you likely have one of the following issues: bad fuel pump check valve, bad fuel injector leaks pressure down, bad pressure regulator, bad crank sensor, bad dis, bad coil and/or bad cam sensor.

the place to start is to pull codes, even if no check engine light, since many stored codes do not result in check engine light but will help diagnose the problem.

report codes and we will guide you from there.

 

[Devin]

Does the fuel pump prime when you have your no-start condition?

I had an issue with my pump in the '87 that it would not work until cooling down for over half an hour. It was worse on hot days.

 

[redsho1995]

There is no check engine light, so I will have to work on getting a code scanner. I will check for the pump prime next time it happens. Thanks for all the suggestions guys I will keep you posted!!

 

[kevinspann]

Fuel pump ever been done? I'd wager that's the issue...

 

[vortex2450]

The only code scanner you'll need for a Gen1/2 Taurus SHO is a paper clip.

How to check codes.

Code list.


If your fuel pump has been noticeably audible as of late it's possible it's dead.

-josh

 

[redsho1995]

Alright. I did the paper clip tests. KOEO codes were 565, 212, & 214. KOER codes were 538, 536, 521 (& 632??) These all basically say there was some sort of circuit failure. Am I doing something wrong??

 

[vortex2450]

Alright. I did the paper clip tests. KOEO codes were 565, 212, & 214. KOER codes were 538, 536, 521 (& 632??) These all basically say there was some sort of circuit failure. Am I doing something wrong??

So.
KOEO

212- IDM circuit failure / SPOUT circuit grounded.
214- CID circuit failure.
565- CANP solenoid circuit failure.

KOER

521- PSPS circuit did not change states.
536- BOO circuit failure

The 538- Operator error (dynamic response / cylinder balance tests).

Just means you didn't get the 10 sec test procedure correct. (Goose throttle, Hit brake, turn wheel lock to lock).

My intuition is that you have a bad ground or more likely a short somewhere. Start checking your ground connections and cleaning them as well. Start with the ground ribbon between the right rear intake bracket and the firewall. Check battery ground connection. Get a bright pen light and scan all the wire harnesses for any signs of unusual wear/stress.

-Josh

 

[Devin]

And check to make sure the pump is priming! I find it hard to believe that heat is making a bad ground worse.

 

[rubydist]

You have 2 issues that you really need to fix, and another that is strongly recommended:

212 spout circuit grounded means that the pcm thinks you want 10* timing at all times, and this seriously limits power and hurts mileage, so you need to trace this down. most likely a wiring issue as Josh suggested above.

214 cid circuit failure (cam sensor) which is the likely cause of your 'hard to start warm' issue - if the cam sensor is sick and doesn't read right, the pcm doesn't know when tdc is on #1, so it just guesses which coil pack to fire first. this results in a 1 out of 3 chance of the engine firing. typically, it takes 3-4 tries to start the engine in this condition. typically, you will also have erratic tach function when the cam sensor is bad. sometimes, you will also get erratic miss when the cam sensor is sick.

565 canp solenoid circuit failure will cause the charcoal canister to saturate and result in a gasoline odor about the car most of the time, particularly when the fuel tank is closer to full. there is a work-around that allows the canister to purge at all times that will eliminate the odor and make the car more fun to be around.

 

[redsho1995]

The fuel pump is priming normally. The cam sensor makes sense rubydist, I just had the seal replaced and apparently the sensor was covered in oil. In theory if I replace that sensor the hot start issue should resolve? I will also check my grounding wires too. Thanks again
everyone!

 

[Noobz347]

Hey guys I'm new to the forums, and I apologize in advance if this question has been answered already. My car starts immediately in the morning, but after I've driven around for 30-45mins and the engine is hot the car cranks but won't start, or start and then **** immediately. My guesses are crankshaft sensor or possibly engine coolant temp. sensor. What do you guys think? - Tim

I came back in here to find my thread and post the resolve to the exact same problem (symptoms anyway).

The final resolution to my problem was the in-tank pump. Guess who manufactured the pump? AIRTEX What a POS. :rainshit: I'll never buy another thing from them. Guess that means there's going to be some shirtless children who are making 50 cents a day for a 14 hour day, making fuel pumps, are going to be out of work. :cry:

Here is how you can find out:

Get the car to the point where it dies. Put a fuel pressure gauge on it that has a manual relief valve and clear plastic drain tube. If your fuel rail pressure is below the norm and you get a lot of bubbles in the fuel when you press the relief valve, then it's likely the pump. Once it got hot, there was pump cavitation like a big dog. It primed and sounded normal, but was a POS.

 

[redsho1995]

Alright I did replace the camshaft sensor with a brand new motorcraft part and that seems to have taken care of the problem! 3 days problem free so far!