94' Intake project

[94SHOgun]

ok. my 94' 3.2 MTX intake. thus the journey to make the most power adding intake. so far

Ported runners to match plenum and lower intake.
Polished to an almost mirrior shem
70MM Throttle body. custom machined.
73MM Mass air flow. from 93' Mustang Cobra R
Big Bore Butterflys


The new idea i have.

a couple of guys i seldumly know in a town close to me have re routed there vacumm lines some how to make ther secondaries always open. the power gain, from what i have seen is night and day.

Two questions.

1. to make effiecient would car have to be tuned? what are the ups and downs?

2. wouldent removing the secondaries "plates" work. remove all six and then they are open all the time and you would not have to re route vacumm lines because the vacumm valves on the secondaries would still function. just taking away the last peice to the puzzel in a since.

IDK let me know what you think

 

[SHOGUN88]

Having the secondaries open all the time will not give you more power, infact it will just give you less power down low. If it did we would all be doing it. Yes you would need a tune, especially for the MAF.

 

[94SHOgun]

the post described my inatke as i run it. minus the secondaries open all the time option.
i cant see getting less power from it. i run the 73mm MAF no problem with no tune. i was told before installing it that i wouldent need one till i went to 80MM+ that the pcm will re calibrate for 73mm MAF. i was wondering about needing tune for secondaries. i am sure if i get tune anyways i would have more power.

i still think the secondaries open in logic makes more power. how does more air flow with less resistance not give you more power. thats kinda like saying no pwer gain from closed box to cone filter no?

side note. also for alot less restrictive the coupler that connects the left side intake plenum tube (that runs over the belts) to the rear box i trimmed the inside ring diamiter from 1.2" like it is to 1 1/8" enough to make the seal.

also the people that i know that have them open always have significant sound gain from ther cone filter intakes. my gusse is becuase the engine is sucking in more air? and the take off is deffinatly noticable from in the passenger seat. i dont under stand how it would slow. i am just going to do it and see on the dyno.

p.s there cars are still no were near my car in performance.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I say DO IT! Nobody here is trying to help you. They're all against you! Take out them secondary plates and shafts!

This is A lot of work for 4hp and a much slower car (below 4k RPM).

i dont under stand how it would slow. i am just going to do it and see on the dyno.

Since these dyno's started at different times, compare 3.5k to 4k. One of these cars didn't have their secondaries closed before 4k.

p.s there cars are still no were near my car in performance.

What?

 

[LOUDSHO92]

The 73mm is not a bolt on MAF and it doesn't have the same curves as a stock MAF.

The butterflies need to be closed below 4k as the car makes it power with the air coming in through the skinny runners only.

 

[Joe_SHO]

i still think the secondaries open in logic makes more power. how does more air flow with less resistance not give you more power. thats kinda like saying no pwer gain from closed box to cone filter no?

when the secondaries open they close the "primaries." it's not a matter of more air into the engine. longer intake runners make more power at lower engine speeds and shorter intake runners make more power at higher engine speeds. why would ANYONE put up with that PITA intake manifold if they really only needed one half its size? not to mention why would ford/yamaha design such an extravagant system simply to reduce power?

 

[biker889]

Close the primaries? what are you talking about....There are only six butterflies in the intake, the primaries do not close.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Close the primaries? what are you talking about....There are only six butterflies in the intake, the primaries do not close.

Are we reading the same thread?

 

[whiteguy3]

Don't take them out. Are we seriously even needing to explain this. The only time I would ever consider this is if I were boosted.

 

[biker889]

Are we reading the same thread?

Read the post right above my previous one.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Ah... Didn't see that one.

biker889 is correct, the primary runners do NOT close.

 

[whiteman_01]

I think the OP needs to take out a plug or 2 and see how lean his car has been running with that 73mm. When i got my 92 it had a 73mm C&L maf on it, and it ran pretty lean.

A guy i know had a C&L also with a superchip and said it was tuned for the C&L. Needless to say when we pulled his plugs, they were very white.

 

[gmail]

there is no true plug and play maf... they all need tuning.

as for secondaries.. your gonna lose a lot down low but if you dont care. (live in secondaries world) take the plates and all out since even stock butterflies with plates removed flow just as good or better then BBBs
now imagine BBB without plates.

 

[shomtx95]

after i painted intake and valve covers i forgot to plug in the sensor for the secondaries on the back of the intake, drove out the road and it was very low on bottom end power, but the intake was very loud all the time. i would imagine the eec is tuned for closed secondaries until 4k right?

 

[Pro*banshee]

I say DO IT! Nobody here is trying to help you. They're all against you! Take out them secondary plates and shafts!


<picture of dyno graph>


What?

How is this graph pertinent to a discussion of secondary butterflies? The two SHOs being graphed aren't the same car. The only way to really prove anything would be a dyno of the same SHO with and without the butterflies and hardware, which would be as easy as pulling the vacuum line

 

[yamahaSHO]

How is this graph pertinent to a discussion of secondary butterflies? The two SHOs being graphed aren't the same car. The only way to really prove anything would be a dyno of the same SHO with and without the butterflies and hardware, which would be as easy as pulling the vacuum line

I see what you're saying... But are you eff'n serious? A more powerful car is making LESS power down low due to the secondaries being unplugged and the graph is all over the place too.

That graph proves my point, same car or not. Seriously, get real.


EDIT: Here you go smart-ass. The blue lines from the top graph are the exact same car as the bottom graph (all). Notice that the graph with MORE boost is making LESS power below 4k. In fact, the NA graph in the second picuture is almost making as much torque at 2,500 RPM as the boosted graph (sans secondaries). Compare away....

 

[Pro*banshee]

Thank you Jason

I believe you and know that the secondaries are closed down low for a good reason; but:

If you're going to lambast the OP with graphs at least pick graphs that apply to the topic being discussed!

 

[yamahaSHO]

The graphs still applied. The cars are both 3.2L with Vortech superchargers. It is clearly enought to show my point, especially when the more powerful car is making less power at a given point (which we are discussing).

 

[Phoenix]

On the TB , I got a 75mm mustang BBK installed , its feasable but I put a good amount of work in this to make it happen , re-route all the vac lines plus the adaptor block.

Good luck.

 

[Silvapain]

BTW, you want some roughness to the intake plenum walls to promote turbulence that helps atomize the fuel. The exhaust ports can be polished to your hearts content though.