802SHO 2010 Build

[802SHO]

Interesting...

Yeah. I really hope this is a critical turning point and I can get this thing ripping. I understand the limitations of a stock ecu in a car like mine. I have so many things deleted. With a stand alone ecu this is no issue. Everything can be tuned out and really unlock the potential.

But with these modern ecu’s I guess some things it needs connected bc it’s a network of signals and this type of disconnect from certain modules is not supported and causes issues. From what I’ve recently read it’s part of working around a stock ecu. Have to leave specific things connected in order to function properly.

I’m both skeptical and optimistic. Damn man if this frees up the transmission it’s ready for real performance data

 

[802SHO]

I was interested to see behind the bumper which I needed to remove to get it the ACC harness. Just to see and check things over with a clear view. Everything looks great. Just covered in road dust. I’m pretty happy about that. The system is stable.

The shaft seal sealant wasn’t a perfect solution. I should have used RTV. It’s a very minor weep, less than before. Didn’t drip on the ground. Wiped it off and at least I know what it is and what do use next time. Essentially nothing to stop driving it over. I’ll take it.

 

[802SHO]

It worked. It was shifting part throttle into second immediately. It was so much better. When I got on it it didn’t pull me all over the road either it was planted. Maybe AWD was disabled. I did a rolling 2-3-4 shift and it felt like it lost traction on the 2-3 shift. With the lsd working it shook the front end from wheel hop. Sent Brad a log. Did one more rolling multi gear pull and yeah it’s wheel hopping 2-3. I’m pumped now

 

[76FoMoCo]

That kinda reminds me of some of the guys having to keep bov plugged when doing delete

 

[802SHO]

If anyone is in the area. Street Rod Nationals, Champlain Valley Expo, Essex Junction Vermont. Sep13 -14. Inside with Quintin Bros Performance

 

[kryptto]

Shame gonna be traveling for work the next several weeks

 

[Zpak]

Would you leave that damn bumper on!!!

Yeah yeah I get it, I’d want to show off the good stuff too.

 

[802SHO]

Stopped in to turn the LED Halo’s on. Sucks I have to work. My schedule is way too backed up to take today off.
Hundreds of Classic muscle cars outside, this is just what’s inside

 

[kryptto]

I will take any classic Chevelle or Malibu, I will send you the trailer for pickup. Thank you.

 

[802SHO]

Got the car back yesterday and went out to data log Rev60.
With the module back shifting is night and day. Brad stepped it down a notch to 16 psi boost target. I’ve become reactive to the shifting fumbles that’s it’s been through and on a rolling WOT pull, it downshifted into second and on the 2-3 shift had a little wheel hop I reactively let off for a second and got back in it.

In the log I see it shifted good but I was not expecting to see a 6900 rpm shift. The car ate it and didn’t care. No knock. But it spiked to 22 psi on the hit before the shift and settled at 16 the target. In talking with someone about spikes and external gates they were surprised to hear that. I said well aren’t spikes common for automatics and he said not for external gates. So with this 6 psi spike I dove head first into gate routing and tuning.

Our OEM boost solenoid is a closed loop solenoid. The internal gates bleed pressure off to control boost and hit targets and this is very inefficient and troublesome for external gates. And essentially a closed loop solenoid is an advanced open loop and the routing to the external gates are critical and need to be routed the same regardless of its open or closed loop.

Stacking the pressure. By routing the boost to the top of the gate it’s adding pressure on top of the spring, giving the tuner a wider and more predictable tuning methodology than bleeding off. The closed loop system also benefits from this direct and linear control. As an added safety benefit the spring pressure is now the safety net. If something were to malfunction the turbos would be immediately limited to their spring pressure. Whereas how I routed it (copying a video about my gate on a focus) if something were to go wrong the gate could be closed and allow for dangerous high boost pressure.

And to boot, the OEM solenoid setup has the VTA of the solenoid recirculating air in the intake system which is something I need to remove bc the unmetered air can throw off fuel/air and lead to a lean condition. The rules have changed bc I’m using external gates. So I need to remove the hose on the VTA port on the solenoid connected to the intake and let the solenoid literally VTA out of that port.

So this afternoon I am going to remove the solenoid feed to the bottom of the gates and attach that to the top. And VTA the bottom of the gates. And VTA the solenoid. And Brad should be able to create a gate map that is very predictable and stable for boost control. Essentially he will have more control than ever compared to internal gates and the bleed off methodology.

 

[802SHO]

So I’ve made a major breakthrough personally with the wastegates and boost solenoid. I have been obsessed to the point of absolute understanding lmfao! Maybe bc it is completely connected to my engines performance and health is a major reason why I felt I needed to over understand.

What I wrote above is not exactly accurate and let’s just scrap the later part of that post.

Our boost solenoid orientation is
Left port: NO (Normally Open) (Boost)
Right port: NC (Normally Closed) VTA or recirculate to compressor inlet.
Bottom right pointing down: COM (common) this sends boost to the wastegates. See photo
At rest NO and NC are connected and COM is isolated. This means 0% duty = venting
Energized NO and COM are connected and NC is isolated. 100%duty = applying pressure

This is our boost solenoid and it cannot work any other way. You will find that when your boost levels are upward of 18psi stock turbos your WGDC% is likely over 80%+. Bc they are nearly maxed out. Likewise you will find that the same exact setup on low boost let’s say 14 psi, your WGDC% will now be let’s say 60%. And when you do bolt ons like the EPP Dual CAI, allowing the turbos to breathe better you will find that your WGDC% may drop 4-5%. So if you were 86% WGDC at 18 psi you should see that drop to around 82% or so. Can think of it as the turbos are working harder at 100% then they are at 50% WGDC.

I set up my system to 100% mimic our OEM plumbing for Internal Wastegates. This has been working however it is NOT how external gates should be plumbed for maximum performance. And with the 22 psi spike on a 16 psi tune….yeah….lets get this right.

So now it will be plumbed this way.
The compressor source to the bottom port of the gate AND to the Left NO port of the solenoid. The COM port of the solenoid to the top port of the gate (pressure stacking) the spring with boost. The NC port of the solenoid VTA.

0% duty the spring pressure is the bare minimum and NO and NC are connected. With 100% duty cycle NO and COM are connected and the solenoid will be sending max boost on top of the spring clamping it shut. 100% duty means max boost.

Stacking the pressure on top of the spring effectively increases the spring rate much better than bleeding and tricking pressure like the internal WG plumbing. So this will yield a wide range of control and increased response with the spool up and letting mechanical spring pressure be the safety net.

So if I had a tune for 100% duty that would be a boom toon.

 

[FrankK]

Who would have thought that you will travel so many roads to get this running.

Good job, you are much smarter for it.

 

[802SHO]

External 2 port wastegate plumbing done.

I’ve been helplessly gravitating towards understanding the Ford Torque based logic. Partly in due to the fact that I’ve essentially done 99% of the mechanical aspect so naturally I’m trying to understand the tuning side of things. To aid in my mechanical adjustments as well as to put forth effort in pursuing success with a better overall understanding, which by default will only aid in protecting my investment.

Tuning hasn’t been going nearly as well as I had hoped. I’ve looked into MoTeC before and other things trying to locate a possible alternative. I found myself again at a point where I decided to look again. By this time I’ve become well aware that EMS (Engineered Motorsports Solutions) is now an authorized distributor/installer/tuner for MoTeC. I know about Ryan Martin (co owner and tuner) and his success with tuning their Word’s Fastest EcoBoost (EcoBoost Mustang) that last ran 8.4 in the 1/4. Chasing 7’s and with a crazy billet block, full MoTeC setup on compound turbos. Before that they were able to work around the stock ECU strategy to get it well into the 9’s. But once they switched to MoTeC everything they were fighting became seen and easily fixable. Ryan also has tuned the Worlds Fastest Focus RS into the 9’s on MoTeC.

He tunes on HPTuners as well and they were the first to put a 10R80 EcoBoost Mustang into the 10’s. And other achievements I’m pretty sure but those are the most recent.

I didn’t look to him for MoTeC, I looked up HPTuners and it’s stated 10-19 SHO is supported and that seems like news to me? 10-12? Ok hmmm so who would I have tune it on HPTuners? Oh yeah, Ryan? So I sent them an email saying my build list, and what I’m experiencing that’s going on. Mentioning Brad is fantastic and helped me achieve the platform record but now with the setup so different it’s hitting safety logic that’s taking away performance. And asked if they would be able to work with my old ECU strategy and also if they are willing to.

I talked to Ryan over the phone about the car. He said he’s tuned some SHO’s before but just basic bolt on stuff. He was impressed with the closed deck conversion as well as the twin G25-550’s. I talked about the boost spikes and he sounded like that’s not usual. I said well isn’t boost spike common for an automatic car and he said not with external gates. We talked for about 30 min. I gave him the history, the build, the goals and expectations and he said I’ll tune it for you. Almost like an audition and I got the job.

So I bought a brand new RTD4 device from Lethal Performance in their signature skull and cross bone symbol. I hit a snag and learned some stuff. My PCM blocked the handshake with the RTD4 to read the stock file and send it to Ryan. My ECU strategy is named Green Oak 2368K. And this family of Ford Strategies is known for safe drivability and emissions, with conservative torque/spark/boost margins out of the box. That makes it stable for stock cars but conservative for extreme builds.

So what’s going on here is Brad trust the OEM models and trims. If fuel is on target the rest should fall into place but the problem is with the CNC ported heads and twin Garrett G25-550 and external gates it is making more toque than it’s 350ft lb model is built around. So targets aren’t in touch with reality and tripping fail safe logics built in. The Green Oak is notorious for pulling timing early as well as it’s been documented. It’s much too conservative for a build like mine. The models need a rescale to the actual mechanical setup and that’s where Ryan comes in.

He has multiple software experience. He used to living deep in the torque based Ford Logic, manipulating and tricking it to let him do what he wants. The pathways to address an “unusual” demand he already knows the paths. He recognizes its needs to be rescaled #1st thing. With those models scaled to actual reality of what the car can make its pretty straightforward.

So when I get my very first tune from Ryan it will also be the first rescale for the car. Starting off in new territory.

I love Brad and I sent him an email explaining how I’ve naturally shifted to learning about the tuning to aid in its success but I also couldn’t help but wonder about better software or a better angle. He seems pretty firm in trusting the OEM model and trims. I just believe it is holding the car back. I’m still going to work with him I just wanted him to know that I contacted Ryan and he offered to tune it with HPTuners.

I may need to send my PCM out for a bench unlock. Should find that out today. 10-12 are the years that are tricky and Green Oak doesn’t always play nice which looks like mine isn’t wanting to make the handshake willingly. Common I guess for this strategy. This is really no big deal, sending out your PCM is mandatory for many makes and models. Turn around is fairly quick. I also asked if I can or need to also send in my TCM for a bench unlock. This I really actually said I wanted to instead of ask bc the different thing about her TCM bench unlock is it will add new tuning parameters for the trans that may not be there right now. Unlike the PCM, bench unlocking it is what it is. Nothing changes expected access. But a TCM unlock can add things not previously offered, so it can unlock more which I want.

It’s exciting and what the car needs is a fresh set of eyes and new strategy. In a way what Ryan is going to do should have been mandatory. Rescale the models to the mechanical changes. Someone said yeah Ryan has accolades but not everyone gets high dollar builds to tune. So that is correct in the sense you can get put in front of a higher dollar build once, but if you can’t deliver results then you won’t keep seeing them. The distinction is he delivers and delivers again. Someone only fluent in SCT or only in HPtuners could hit a wall…like how I feel the car is. But having his experience with SCT, AccessTuner, HPTuners, MoTeC…..he’s used to navigating different softwares to achieve what he wants. Even if it takes tricking the ECU he’ll make it happen. Like I guess he can mimic boost by gear by a clever torque model and WG values. The kind of mind I need inside my SHO right now.

 

[Autox4fun]

To piggy back on what you just said, would it be possible to update the ecu to the 13+
Some thing I did notice from shifting from the Flex 10-12 and building the exploder, is the 13+ using better hall effect sensors for the cams and the crank. The tone ring reference is way better for reading and control info.

Fast forward you would need the sensors, a crank tone ring, and a updated engine harness.

I believe, I have a harness from the Exploder still,(you can have it) if you go this way and need a harness for the Motec update. The harness I have is damaged at the ecu connector. You would be able to harvest all the connectors for the engine side (injectors, cams, etc..) You or the wiring builder would be able to adapt and go.

That Crank tone ring means you gotta pull the trans... to swap.. but better info in = better control out..

 

[802SHO]

To piggy back on what you just said, would it be possible to update the ecu to the 13+
Some thing I did notice from shifting from the Flex 10-12 and building the exploder, is the 13+ using better hall effect sensors for the cams and the crank. The tone ring reference is way better for reading and control info.

Fast forward you would need the sensors, a crank tone ring, and a updated engine harness.

I believe, I have a harness from the Exploder still,(you can have it) if you go this way and need a harness for the Motec update. The harness I have is damaged at the ecu connector. You would be able to harvest all the connectors for the engine side (injectors, cams, etc..) You or the wiring builder would be able to adapt and go.

That Crank tone ring means you gotta pull the trans... to swap.. but better info in = better control out..

I’m interested but going to see where I end up with the current hardware first.

 

[802SHO]

Ok a few things. Changing to an updated ECU is not as simple as swap everything over. Real-world conclusion: If you’re prepared to swap the donor’s PCM + BCM + cluster + immobilizer and keys, then take the car to a dealer or IDS-capable shop to program VINs, pair keys, and reflash as needed, you can make a donor ECU work.

• But it’s not plug-and-play: it requires programming, potential reflash of calibrations, and careful verification. That’s why the “just swap the ECU” idea is overly optimistic — the programming step is the critical part and can’t be skipped.

So has anyone actually swapped ECU’s? We can swap different motors and transmissions from different years but that’s using the same ECU. Big difference.

I understood the OEM solenoid wrong. Our WGDC% is the amount the solenoid is VENTING. It’s venting 86% of the compressor away from the internal gate actuator to keep the gate closed longer at let’s say 20 psi GHGen3 turbos.

The layout is the same. NO= compressor inlet. COM= wastegate inlet and NC = Vent. But bc we know it’s venting that means NO and COM are connected at rest and NC is isolated. 0% duty sends all the compressor source to the actuator and it’s going to open the gate at WG spring pressure. I had this opposite.

So the 2 port external gate plumbing I did is correct however bc of the REAL function of the OEM Boost Solenoid being duty % is venting NOT applying pressure. It means this
Duty is venting so 100% duty is WG spring. Brad sent me a tune for 100% duty and I thought it was a boom toon! He was right. P.S. Brad helped me get it straight. So he would need to invert the duty% for this to work. 100% duty is WG spring and let’s say 20% duty is max boost on E85. Brad can easily change this. Here’s the snag. The closed-loop boost control logic. It can’t be inverted. That’s fixed and will always work with the original WG logic so the closed loop boost control logic will always fight actual-desired in one fixed direction.

The snag to watch for when using AI. Looking for critical info you better feed it critical details. So Brad and I on the same page finally and he says but what about closed loop boost contol logic? So I enter into AI and it says….oh yeah the pitfall of using an OEM boost solenoid and ECU. I’m thinking, “Are you f kidding me?” If Brad doesn’t have an option in SCT (also tuning software limitation) to invert closed loop boost control logic it will never be right. He can easily invert the WG table but closed loop boost logic is fixed. So with MoTeC or Syvecs ….i thought “F you AI, you f….cker knew the whole time I didn’t know to include boost control logic.”

So now I am defeated. It says Brad can disable boost control logic which will work and be safe as long as he includes a hard cut boost limit for a safety. OR I plumb it back NOT bc it’s not right but bc the ECU + software limitations.

Here’s the thing. Brad wants to try it anyway it seems. So **** yeah! But, I said I’m good with defeat man so if it’s less work which it probably is for me to plumb it back and let the top port of the gate VTA then I will.

So it’s a slippery slope using an AI to help learn. It’s great for general principals but if you don’t give it every possible angle or detail it may mislead you from lack of those details. So to work around that it needs to be included ask it, “Will this work in SCT, or will this work with the torque based Ford logic, or is there anything I’m missing, or what details does my tuner need to make this work.”

Overall it’s taught me a lot and what it did do is light a fire under Brads Ass. I’ve shifted slightly from customer to collaborator. Brad took my tune file and threw it in the recycling bin. Rebuilt the tune from the ground up. Before it was a base tune loaded with layers and layers of changes. Now it will be a clean fresh rescaled tune. The only thing I’m waiting on is if Brad is going to try the inverted WG duty to run the optional 2 port external gate with closed loop boost logic disabled or if he wants to just have me plumb it back and vent the top so it’s oriented in Ford’s fixed way for boost control logic.

In reference to my stock tune file. I’m stuck at the moment and here’s why. My Green Oak 2368K PCM is not in need of a bench unlock. My SCT X4 device is married to the PCM. Even though Brad didn’t have anything to do with my stock file and hasn’t locked it…..the device itself is locked and using a locked device to flash back to stock makes the RTD4 look at the PCM as married to another software and unsupported to read the stock file.

To work around this I asked Brad if he could unlock the next tune. This will take my device out of prison mode and essentially be unmarried. I flash his unlocked tune. I then flash back to stock and then I can read the stock file and the RTD4 will work. Or I take it to Ford and have them flash a new stock file and new strategy. Problem with that is I was told October 13 for them to do that for me at one dealership even after explaining and pleading the service advisor didn’t give a shit. October 13 or nothing. I said no thank you.

I’m currently searching for an independent shop with Ford IDS or FDRS capabilities to do this for me. And I’ll try another Ford dealer Monday and see. One good thing about a new strategy (updated) is it’s known to unlock new parameters with tuning software. The downside is my stock file right now is a golden nugget. If lost with let’s say…getting SCT to unmarry my device I am incapable of having a stock file bc the car is heavily modified. I would need Ford to create one. And the snag with that is….new strategy…..I need a new tune immediately or I cannot start and drive the car home.

Welcome to the shit show. One week the car down halfway between new tuners. Can’t read the stock file for Ryan, almost blew up the car with the wrong WG logic in reference to how it works (in theory, I never ran the 100% duty tune or the 0% duty tune). I’m stuck in the mud right now

 

[802SHO]

LOL, it’s like I’m trying to sharpen 2 knives and the swap ecu idea is like saying….hey man I know what can help you with those 2 knives…..do this….and sharpen 50 knives. Thanks I think?
Options for Your SHO ECU Setup
1. Keep 2010 PCM + Ford reflash (update strategy)
Pros:
Cheapest and simplest option.
Dealer/IDS can update to the latest Ford calibration.
Sometimes unlocks more tables/parameters.
Keeps your existing harnesses, sensors, and modules happy.
Stock file is preserved → tuners can
still work with it.
Cons:
Still limited by Ford ECU structure (PID loops, torque management, etc).
Won’t magically gain 2013+ logic, just refinements.
Value: Best bang for buck if you want to stay OEM-based.

2. Swap to 2013+ PCM + BCM + cluster + keys
Pros:
Theoretical access to later strategy OS.
Some updated logic for boost/trans control (tiny bit more refined).
Cons:
Requires PCM + BCM + cluster + keys + sometimes TCM.
Needs IDS/FDRS programming to marry modules and VIN.
Wiring/pinout differences possible.
Huge hassle with PATS, mileage sync, and option coding.
At best, you gain ~1% more tunability — still stuck in OEM logic box.

Value: 99% work for 1% gain. Basically pointless unless you’re a *********.
lol forum censored maso. Chist. Means a person who enjoys pain or discomfort especially from their own choices lol
3. Standalone ECU (MoTeC, Syvecs, etc.)
Pros:
Total control over fuel, spark, boost, traction, etc.
No factory nanny logic (you own the PID loops).
High-speed logging and calibration changes.
Scales infinitely with mods (big turbos, custom fueling, advanced strategies).
Proven path to 9s and beyond.
Cons:
Expensive.
Requires full setup, tuning from scratch, and sometimes custom wiring.
Certain OEM features (like dash integration, factory trans control) need workarounds.

Value: Real upgrade. Painful install, but a game-changer for serious builds.

Bottom line:
2010 PCM reflash = smart, quick, keeps you moving forward.
2013 PCM swap = waste of time, solves nothing, just new headaches.
MoTeC = real upgrade, worth it if you’re chasing 9s seriously.

 

[kryptto]

Real quandary, however I have always thought and all kidding aside you were chasing 9's and setting a record but I could be wrong. Based on your issues and the monies spent ... Paying the money and cracking open the super car title might be worth the wait? Just thinking out loud is all

 

[802SHO]

Real quandary, however I have always thought and all kidding aside you were chasing 9's and setting a record but I could be wrong. Based on your issues and the monies spent ... Paying the money and cracking open the super car title might be worth the wait? Just thinking out loud is all

? Not sure how you could think I’m not chasing 9’s. I’m trying to see how far I can get using the OEM ecu. Falling drastically short of that goal would still be a record in the 10’s.

 

[802SHO]

So stock ECU= New Record bc even limited the new mechanical setup is THAT much better
Aftermarket ECU = better chance of seeing the car’s goal of getting into the 9’s.