3.2 swap? Mystery

[SHOPLUS]

Hey everyone,

I'm fairly new to the SHO community, just picked up a rare SHO PLUS a month or so ago and I'm trying to figure out if its been swapped. I've read all the threads on swaps but the problem is those who do the swap the best utilize the 3.0 heads and accessory drive so from the top it seems impossible to tell. It has 112K so the next 60K isnt until another 8K miles although it is ticking a little so I might do it sooner than that.

I have no previous owner knowledge as I just happened across it at an auction ( I do acquisitions for a new used car place). Its got all kinds of high dollar mods, konis (on their way out so it'll get sensa-tracs with B&Gs) F&R 11.6" brakes, aluminum SFB, weld in SFCs, catted Y-pipe full exhaust with flows and resonator. I can say with 90% confidence the motor has been out of the car at one point in its life there are many tell tale signs of this.I can say for sure the valve covers, timing covers, and oil pan have been off due to bolt inconsistencies and new gaskets.
The reason I believe it has a 3.2 swap is because I raced a S197 GT auto with exhaust and maybe gears and held pretty well onto his rear bumper. I also believe it is cammed because once it warms up its got a little lope to it. It also idles at 1000rpm.

I understand my three options for differentiating a 3.2 from 3.0 in my my case are:
1. Oil pan (I have no idea what the difference would be though)
2. Timing tensioners (that wont be until the next 60K)
3. Webbing on the block (Again, I have no idea what the difference would be)

Pictures please, pictures. :thankyou:

 

[kevinspann]

If you can get a picture from underneath, looking at the block from the front or rear (the sides of the block) we could tell that way. Or, is the coil pack tilted towards the front? Is there anything trimmed off of the front of the head?

Check for a chip in the back of the PCM as well. If you can get a video of it idling, it'll be easier to tell if it has cams.

 

[SHOPLUS]

Okay, I'll do that I wont be back to the shop to get it on a lift for a few days but I'll take a good pick of the both sides (F&R) from underneath

EDIT:
BTW where is the PCM located? on the pass side under the kick panel like mustangs?

 

[kevinspann]

Top of the firewall, passenger side. I know on 92-95s, you can drop the glovebox door down, and look up to the back of it, where a chip would be. You can probably do the same for a 91

 

[rubydist]

3.2 oil pan has the oil level sensor on the front (left) side, while the 3.0 has the oil level sensor on the rear side. that is the easy way to tell which pan it has. however, if the 3.2 swap was done with full 3.0 accessories, then it would have the 3.0 pan as part of that. if the oil level sensor is on the front side, then its a pretty good guess that it is a 3.2, since there is no reason to put a 3.2 pan on a 3.0.

 

[bigblock]

if its a 3.2 without head swap, the coil will be slanted with the head. the 3.0 is level with the car. 3.2 injectors have a different color top than 3.0. i think its purple? if its a true 3.2 with 3.0 head swap it will be really hard to tell.

 

[SuperHO]

if its a 3.2 without head swap, the coil will be slanted with the head. the 3.0 is level with the car. 3.2 injectors have a different color top than 3.0. i think its purple? if its a true 3.2 with 3.0 head swap it will be really hard to tell.

Not necessarily....my swap required the use of the 3.2 heads, but my coil pack is horizontal.

My cars up on jackstands. I'll crawl my fat ass up under there, brave the spider infestation and snap a pic of the block webbing everyone's talking about. And ill do it just for you.

 

[Irish Pride]

Hey everyone,

I'm fairly new to the SHO community, just picked up a rare SHO PLUS a month or so ago and I'm trying to figure out if its been swapped.

Does this car happen to be White with Lt Blue paint on the lower half of the front bumper cover?

 

[jayro]

Sounds like a good find. I would go ahead and do the 60K now for peace of mind. If all the 3.0 stuff was used then the timing belt tensioner will be a 3.0 also. Mmmmmmm....camms.

 

[SuperHO]

Okay, so I'm not gonna get you a pic after all. After much canoodling around under the car trying to find a good camera angle, I got nothing but dirty.

Just get under it with a lift and see if you can get us a pic of the webbing below the rear freeze plugs. Also, to see if 3.2 heads were used, look behind the throttle body at the rear valve cover. There should be a sticker right there that says either KOA or KOB on it. KOA denotes a 3.0 while KOB is for the 3.2.

 

[kevinspann]

I can get one of the 3.2 sitting in my garage when I get home.

 

[SHOPLUS]

Hey guys I appreciate all the help, especially SuperHO, thanks for getting dirty for nothing haha. I'll get the pics and a video of the idle. At 1000 it might be hard to hear the lope in the camera but we'll see.

Irish pride, no its all white with tan interior infact it looks like it had a recent paint job.. and is very nice .it has brand new bridgestone potenzas on some kind of bullit-esque american racing 16" wheels...not sure why it ended up at an auction.

It has the 3.0 pan, I can say that now knowing what the **** the difference is. It has a broken off sensor in the back of the oil pan...one of the reasons I think the motors been out. I'll take pics as soon as I get back to my shop, I'm a University of Florida senior and the dealer I work for is in Jacksonville. Gotta finish up my 03 GT rebuild (all back together in the car but needs plugs, coolant, oil, trans fluid, etc.) and fix this mysterious oil leak on my GF's a4 2.8...I worked on VW/Audi for 6 years and still cant get away from them lol.
I dont think its 3.2 heads because it doesnt look like anything was hacked off the heads...although two valve cover bolts are missing on the back by the driver's side haha.

I really love the car, I rarely heard of them from my dad and uncle but now that I have one I see what all the hype is about. I've had a lot of mustangs and while I cant say its as fast as MY modular cars (although it sure is faster than some mustangs GTs I've beaten hehehe), its sure is fun punking kids in hondas...especially when you can destroy them in a straight line then out corner them in a 4 door brick.

Yeah I'll probably end up doing the 60K next weekend or maybe the one after....I ordered about 2K worth of brakes (god 96 SHO vented front rotors aren't cheap) pads, F&R sway bar links, springs, shocks, CV's, etc...... I've got a big white money pit.

For the 60K what all do I need? I'm an Audi/VW guy so I'm used to just a timing belt and water pump, rarely do *** tensioners need replacing. Does the water pump need to be replaced? On most VWs and Hondas I've done

 

[jayro]

Front 60K would consist of all belt (including timing), water pump (yes, replace it), CPS and front main seal. While you are in the area I would pull the rear cam sensor to see if the see if the seal is leaking. Replace it if it is. Make sure you use the right brand (a search should give you a list of good ones).
Are you losing oil out of the holes where the valve cover bolts go? Be carful when taking them out and putting them back in....they are easy to mess up.
You may want to look into replacing the rod bearing too....at the very least you could pull the oil pan to look at a couple.

Depending on how long you can have the car down for, you may want to send the koni's in for a rebuild instead of getting sensatracs. With all the goodies the car would be really fun on a roadcourse and koni's would be a better choice.

The SHO's don't have alot of torque, but if you have cams it will pull hard up top....I have hit my 8.2K rev limiter on more than one occasion....though that many RPM's would be pointless with stock/mild cams. Your GT (if modded well) would most likely beat a BOS SHO in a straight line......through the twisties, maybe not.

 

[SHOPLUS]

Okay thanks, no it doesnt leak a drop not even from the two missing bolts at the driver's side of the rear valve cover, clean as a pin underneath too! It even has a tapped trans drain plug, whoever owned this car really knew SHOs.
I'll check out the search function for a write up on the 60K but why rod bearings? are they a high wear item on these cars?

Also the sensatracs are a band aid so I can have the konis rebuilt but that wont be for a while

EDIT:
"You can tell by pulling a spark plug and looking at the top of the piston.


If the piston looks like it has a raised crown between the valve cutouts, it's a 3.0 piston.

If the piston looks like it has a flat topped crown between the valve cutouts, it's a 3.2. " This was taken from another forum, is this true? Thatd be awesome since I have a snake camera!

Looked at the injectors, they're kind of pinkish? tried to take a pic but didnt come out, focus was on the rail
Heres the code off the back of the rear head

And some kind of bracket that does nothing?

 

[kevinspann]

Lifting eye for the front. The holes on the head for it aren't drilled and tapped on a 3.2 head, so that is most likely a 3.0 head.

I assume the coil pack is sitting level too?

 

[bigblock]

Not necessarily....my swap required the use of the 3.2 heads, but my coil pack is horizontal.

did you use a 3.0 coil bracket? i didnt swap mine so i dont know if they even bolt up the same. i know you can use the 3.2 bracket with 1 bolt to tilt it like the 3.0.

 

[jayro]

Rod bearing do wear on these motors. Some are good for over 200K while others have have only lasted 100K. There are alot of theories about wear reasons. The high rpms probably have something to do with it. Lugging the motor is said to contribute to it. Don't get me wrong, the motor is not weak. The stock bottom end (minus the pistons) is forged and can withstand alot of power. The reason I said to take a look at a couple....with as nice as the car sounds they may have already been changed.

Like has already been said, the bracket in the pic is a lifting point.

For curiosities sake you may want to pop an axle out of the trans and look in. With all the mods it is possible that it may also have a Quaife/Wavetrac diff in it. If you can see the diff pins when you look in then it is a stock (open) diff. If it is the stock one, stay away from burnouts. The "One Wheel Peel" will **** it.

If you post a few pics of the car it is possible that someone may know some history on it.

 

[SHOPLUS]

Yeah it really has a lot of signs of being out but ill take a look at the rods during the 60k. It doesnt really peel out even nailing it in first gear it just tries to kinda pull left but a fwd car this fast will always exhibit torque steer. It may have a lsd so ill check that. Ill be doing the shocks springs brakes and cvs this coming weekend. In the mean time ill post up some oics...even though the American racing wheels havent exactly won me over

 

[kevinspann]

Man I never got around to taking those pics. PM me your phone number or email address, and I can take them with my phone and send them that way. Much easier.

 

[jayro]

Yeah it really has a lot of signs of being out but ill take a look at the rods during the 60k. It doesnt really peel out even nailing it in first gear it just tries to kinda pull left but a fwd car this fast will always exhibit torque steer. It may have a lsd so ill check that. Ill be doing the shocks springs brakes and cvs this coming weekend. In the mean time ill post up some oics...even though the American racing wheels havent exactly won me over

Let us know what you find out about the diff. The torque steer would be more pronounced with a Quaife/Wavetrac, but since you don't have anything to compare it to it would be hard to tell. The biggest sign would be if you were on it in a corner and the inside wheel spins.....though I wouldn't recomend doing that with a stock diff. The issue with the stock one is that spinning one wheel puts allot of stress on the roll pins that secure the diff pins. They can eventually sheer and then there is nothing holding the diff pins in. As the diff spins the pins work their way out until they contact the case and blow a hole in the side of it. Gotta love the fact that Ford stuck what is basically a slightly beefed up ****** GT trans on a SHO motor. To fix the issue you can either replace the diff with a performance one, or people have had success with weilding a ring around the diff to keep the pins in.

FYI, the Quaife/WaveTrac is a Torque Bias setup, not LSD.