2010 to 2015 sho engine swap

[Ecostang]

Unfortunately the guy sold the car since yesterday, looks like this project isn't going to happen for me. Bummer.

Thanks again for all the responses, maybe this info will help someone else later.

 

[SHOdded]

Too bad! Maybe the opportunity will crop up yet again

 

[rubydist]

its not that easy - with the CANBUS systems, you cannot simply swap in a new pcm from a 2015 car, because it needs all of the matching pieces of the system, or it doesn't work. so from my point of view, using the 2015 pcm is not a workable choice.

 

[shoblock]

I'm a huge ecoboost fan, I have a 3.5 installed in a 2010 mustang race car and my DD is a 2013 ecoboost supercrew. I stumbled across a 2010 sho 50k miles with a blown engine. It's a really good deal and I wanted to pick this up to play around with, I've always loved the 2010+ sho.

I've found a long block engine from a 2015 sho with only 2k miles. I would need to use my 2010 turbos and all accessories for the 2015 engine. I realize that I would need to upgrade to water-cooled oil cooler and I found a list of parts for that. Is there any other problems I would have with this swap? Any wiring issues? Are the intakes different? Transmissions? I can't find much online about the diTh

The F150 ecoboost and SHO ecoboost are very different engines, component wise. I doubt that more than one or two components would interchange. Definitely not the cylinder blocks. (I should know) Ford is working on having interchangeability for future transverse and rear drive motors, but for now, not. The hint is the new GT 40 car with 600hp.. That configuration is the future.
To answer the original question, I would stick to swapping parts from 2010 to 2012 engines, or 2013 to 2016 engines. In the case of the 2010 with a blown motor, if I couldn't find a '10 to '12 for a donor car, I would go to Livernois, and get stronger replacement components, or maybe a whole upgraded motor. Less time and hassle, and likely less money and far better performance.

 

[RandR10]

2010-12 have different crank and cam sensors than the +13-16 motors. Everything else should swap over.

BamSHO, do you know of anyone who has actually done this swap successfully? Did they run into any unexpected problems? I think my 2011 Ecoboost is about to let the smoke out and finding an affordable long long block from a 2010-12 is proving very difficult. Seems used 13+ motors are a dime a dozen. The earlier motors are so expensive it would make more sense for me to just get a fresh long block straight from Ford. Seriously considering cutting my losses with this car because dealer installed it's like 8 grand and another shop I called wants 6500 to put a used one in (4k of that price is the used motor).

 

[bpd1151]

The heart of my 2010 SHO, at it's core, is a 2014 production block.

So it's doable.

But what all was switched over, was beyond my weekend warrior skills.

I'd ask LMS.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[xFallenxCripplex]

Why not a AWD mustang? Although trying to turn that into a manual :s

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[shoblock]

BamSHO, do you know of anyone who has actually done this swap successfully? Did they run into any unexpected problems? I think my 2011 Ecoboost is about to let the smoke out and finding an affordable long long block from a 2010-12 is proving very difficult. Seems used 13+ motors are a dime a dozen. The earlier motors are so expensive it would make more sense for me to just get a fresh long block straight from Ford. Seriously considering cutting my losses with this car because dealer installed it's like 8 grand and another shop I called wants 6500 to put a used one in (4k of that price is the used motor).

A fresh 2016 short block will fit, and add the benefit of fine thread main bearing bolts and a stronger crank. If you get a pp block, it will have better pistons. Use all 2010 to 2012 parts above the head deck. The cams, valve covers, and logic controls were all revised for 2013, but the blocks haven't changed, except for the main bearing bolts in mid 2015.

 

[RandR10]

A fresh 2016 short block will fit, and add the benefit of fine thread main bearing bolts and a stronger crank. If you get a pp block, it will have better pistons. Use all 2010 to 2012 parts above the head deck. The cams, valve covers, and logic controls were all revised for 2013, but the blocks haven't changed, except for the main bearing bolts in mid 2015.

So what you're saying is that the heads themselves are different too? Meaning that you can't just simply swap the cam and crank sensors and drop it in? Or is what BamSHO saying true, that you can simply swap the sensors? Making an assumption here from what you and BamSHO said, but it looks like maybe it will plug but not play? Ugh, I'm so confused. Maybe a reflash with a custom tune would correct the difference in cam profiles if you can indeed use the 2010 harness and sensors?

Block strength isn't really an issue for me based on my plans. Just light mods planned, at least over the next few years. As far as skill level goes, I've done full rebuilds on motors and automatic transmissions, from small block Chevys and Fords to DOHC Honda motors, so I could do quite a bit if the parts themselves weren't prohibitively expensive nor time consuming to modify/install. Expense is the primary concern for me here at this point in time, otherwise I'd just pay the dealer the 8 grand to drop a fresh motor in there. What I'm really looking for is a used motor that won't cost as much as the brand new one from Ford, that will work in my car with minimal modification.

 

[SHOdded]

sounds like he is saying there are improvements in the engine design as the years have passed, but they don't affect your plans to swap in a 2013+ block into your Flex. The sensor swap should be sufficient.

 

[RandR10]

Yeah I guess worst case scenario I could swap my current heads onto the donor motor and sell the heads if it doesn't work.

 

[SHOdded]

I really don't anticipate the need for that, and I hope especially not because the current engine is suspect.

 

[shoblock]

So what you're saying is that the heads themselves are different too? Meaning that you can't just simply swap the cam and crank sensors and drop it in? Or is what BamSHO saying true, that you can simply swap the sensors? Making an assumption here from what you and BamSHO said, but it looks like maybe it will plug but not play? Ugh, I'm so confused. Maybe a reflash with a custom tune would correct the difference in cam profiles if you can indeed use the 2010 harness and sensors?

Block strength isn't really an issue for me based on my plans. Just light mods planned, at least over the next few years. As far as skill level goes, I've done full rebuilds on motors and automatic transmissions, from small block Chevys and Fords to DOHC Honda motors, so I could do quite a bit if the parts themselves weren't prohibitively expensive nor time consuming to modify/install. Expense is the primary concern for me here at this point in time, otherwise I'd just pay the dealer the 8 grand to drop a fresh motor in there. What I'm really looking for is a used motor that won't cost as much as the brand new one from Ford, that will work in my car with minimal modification.

I will go out to the line on Monday and test our 'tribal knowledge'. There are assemblers who assembled heads during the transition, and I will find a person who knows what interchanges and what doesn't. The resident engineer responsible for the plant at the time of the transition, has moved on, but I will try to contact him through email. You will owe me big time!!

 

[RandR10]

I will go out to the line on Monday and test our 'tribal knowledge'. There are assemblers who assembled heads during the transition, and I will find a person who knows what interchanges and what doesn't. The resident engineer responsible for the plant at the time of the transition, has moved on, but I will try to contact him through email. You will owe me big time!!

Holy crap if you do that yes I will!

 

[RandR10]

Sort of figured something out here I think. Went to fordpartsgiant and cross referenced part numbers for various years with the ecoboost 3.5l powerplant 10-14 (15 wouldn't show up there, but part numbers continue the same on other sites). Here's what I found:

Cylinder Heads
2010-11 MY AA5Z-6049-C (passenger) and AA5Z-6049-D (driver) 07/2009-12/2010
2011-14 MY AA5Z-6049-E (passenger, replaced by AA5Z-6049-G) and AA5Z-6049-F (driver) 12/2010-

Cam Sensors
2010-12 MY AT4Z-6B288-A 05/2008-
2013-14 MY BL3Z-6B288-A 02/2012-

Crank Sensor
2010-12 MY AA5Z-6C315-A
2013-14 MY BL3Z-6C315-A

Short Block
2010 MY AA5Z-6009-A
2010-14 MY AA5Z-6009-B

So, they changed cylinder heads mid 2011 model year (along with timing gear), but they kept running the same everything else, including the bottom end, as short block stays same throughout (except for early 2010 PN that is obsolete). Cam and crank sensors didn't change until 2013 MY, so all of those sensors should interchange with all year heads and bottom end, because they kept the heads the same when they went to the new sensors. I think this is a go, but feedback from shoblock would still be very much appreciated. Now I need to wait on my oil analysis to see how urgent my problem actually is (need to rule out that I've got a bad injector or leaky water pump diluting oil with gas or coolant).

 

[shoblock]

Sort of figured something out here I think. Went to fordpartsgiant and cross referenced part numbers for various years with the ecoboost 3.5l powerplant 10-14 (15 wouldn't show up there, but part numbers continue the same on other sites). Here's what I found:

Cylinder Heads
2010-11 MY AA5Z-6049-C (passenger) and AA5Z-6049-D (driver) 07/2009-12/2010
2011-14 MY AA5Z-6049-E (passenger, replaced by AA5Z-6049-G) and AA5Z-6049-F (driver) 12/2010-

Cam Sensors
2010-12 MY AT4Z-6B288-A 05/2008-
2013-14 MY BL3Z-6B288-A 02/2012-

Crank Sensor
2010-12 MY AA5Z-6C315-A
2013-14 MY BL3Z-6C315-A

Short Block
2010 MY AA5Z-6009-A
2010-14 MY AA5Z-6009-B

Got a few tidbits. We have good memories, but sometimes, their short:

They changed cylinder heads mid 2011 model year (along with timing gear), but they kept running the same everything else, including the bottom end, as short block stays same throughout (except for early 2010 PN that is obsolete). Cam and crank sensors didn't change until 2013 MY, so all of those sensors should interchange with all year heads and bottom end, because they kept the heads the same when they went to the new sensors.
I do remember there was a small program for 13 MY on the GTDI but don’t rely on my memory for the full details. The cam cover change from aluminum to plastic was a running change 15MY action. The plastic covers needed an extra boss in the cylinder heads so the cyl heads changed, but aluminum covers can be fitted to either level of cylinder head. There were also changes to the cam sensors and I believe the crank sensor too. The crank sensor also had a corresponding change to an HDR wheel with more teeth (Made common with TiDI). The sensors fit in the same sized boss in the cyl heads and rear seal retainer so can be interchanged but of course the correct wire harness and PCM need to be used to match the sensors. The 13MY wire harness and PCM had numerous small changes as well. I recall there were changes in the oil pan to improve oil surge performance on the 2013MY but externally the oil pans will look and fit the same. Another action taken around that time was to move from fabricated exhaust manifolds to cast ones. The cast ones required a different calibration to over fuel the engine under extended periods of high load to prevent the cast manifolds going over temp and cracking. I would stick with the fabricated manifolds if you have them.
The only GTDI engines with oil coolers are the police spec engines and the SHO ordered with the “track pack”. The cooler used is an oil to coolant type that tees into the coolant supply, there’s no oil to air heat exchanger that will interfere with the ACC at the front of the car. You are correct the cooler could bolt on to any SHO but the correct coolant hoses and OFA would also be required.
If the owner is reasonably handy and swaps over the ancillaries from the failed 11MY engine to the 2013 I think it ought to work. But my memory comes with no guarantees. I imagine 2013 engines are easier to find as by 2013 the engine was being used in the explorer sport and the volumes had increased significantly.

 

[shoblock]

In re-reading the above, I should mention that 'tidi' is the buzz word for the F150 engine, different in almost all aspects. Looks like the HDR wheel is the same for all 35 ecoboost engines starting in 15.

 

[RandR10]

In re-reading the above, I should mention that 'tidi' is the buzz word for the F150 engine, different in almost all aspects. Looks like the HDR wheel is the same for all 35 ecoboost engines starting in 15.

Thanks so much shoblock! So excuse my ignorance, but I'm assuming the HDR wheel is the crank sensor wheel, and the change was in 2015 MY? They call it something different in the shop manual, just making sure. Either way, if both engines are sitting there out in the shop, it will be very easy to swap something like that from the looks of it. Looks pretty straightforward. From what you're saying, I think I'll try to go with as early a build as possible to help avoid some of the running changes you talk about. It'll hopefully help cut down on drama during the install.

 

[shoblock]

Thanks so much shoblock! So excuse my ignorance, but I'm assuming the HDR wheel is the crank sensor wheel, and the change was in 2015 MY? They call it something different in the shop manual, just making sure. Either way, if both engines are sitting there out in the shop, it will be very easy to swap something like that from the looks of it. Looks pretty straightforward. From what you're saying, I think I'll try to go with as early a build as possible to help avoid some of the running changes you talk about. It'll hopefully help cut down on drama during the install.

The HDR wheel in assembly is on the flywheel end, used to spin the motor. We add and remove it in the engine plant. I'm not sure what happens to this area in body and assembly, but the HDR changed on the SHO in 2015 to same one the f150 uses. I believe if you use your flywheel, and all components distal to it on the transmission side, you will be fine.

 

[RandR10]

Alright, just pulled the trigger on a 2015 Explorer Interceptor turbo motor with 8k miles on it! Still a bit of a gamble at this point but hopefully my being a guinea pig on this will help prove out an inexpensive replacement engine solution for 2010-12 owners.