worsening powerloss in a 95 ATX, CEL's and symptoms inside

[Dasfinc]

First off, check to make sure the SPOUT connector is in place. It looks like a little grey square in a fuse holder, and is located behind the motor by the ground strap on the passenger side of the engine compartment.

Secondly, check the wiring harness that runs on top of / behind the rear valve cover for any sort of damage. My friend had an 89' that was having all sorts of drivability issues, throwing a cam position sensor code, stalling, etc. After replacing the DIS, cam position sensor, IAC, regrounding the engine and tons of other stuff, I found 1 wire that was frayed and rubbing against the chassis behind the motor. 1 piece of electrical tape and the car ran perfectly.

Can someone show me a pic of the SPOUT connector so I know what I'm looking for?

What does it do? What does it affect etc?

 

[Dasfinc]

Is the SPOUT connector the little jumper in a plug in the wiring harness just off of the CPS? If so, I just checked that out, and its 100% good.

 

[ViPER1313]

Yes, it is. Have you checked the timing of the motor? If one of your cam's skipped a tooth on the timing belt you would have low power, rich/lean codes, etc but I doubt anything else would show up in the engine diagnostics. Also do a cylinder balance test - you can find the procedure at

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/eec/eec.htm

Try disconnecting the throttle position sensor and driving the car - it's located on the throttle body. If there is no change in drivibility you may have found your problem.

 

[Dasfinc]

Yes, it is. Have you checked the timing of the motor? If one of your cam's skipped a tooth on the timing belt you would have low power, rich/lean codes, etc but I doubt anything else would show up in the engine diagnostics. Also do a cylinder balance test - you can find the procedure at

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/eec/eec.htm

Try disconnecting the throttle position sensor and driving the car - it's located on the throttle body. If there is no change in drivibility you may have found your problem.

how do you check timing on these motors?

 

[ViPER1313]

Its hard to do with an auto - you have to rotate the engine with the top timing cover removed until the marks on the timing belt line up with the crank & both cam pullies. You can also hook up a timing light, although I can't offer much advise on using one and you will still have to pull the top timing cover. I would run the cylinder balance test first and if that doesn't reveal anything try driving the car without the throttle position sensor connected (thats a long shot though.) Have you replaced / swapped the DIS (the computer module attached to the crossover tube on the intake manifold. Its a grey-rectangle with 2 connectors – 1 at each end.) That module controls timing advance and receives the signal from the cam position sensor.

 

[Dasfinc]

As far as sensors mounted on the intake go, I've swapped out everything except for the IACV as I have a spare IM with all sensors. *Including the DIS, EGR, and TPS*

 

[93rev2sev]

Not one mention of a dirty MAF sensor in this whole thread. Unplug that baby and see if it helps.

 

[ViPER1313]

Sorry I didn't catch that, I am just trying to think of easier / free things to try before saying it's the engine's timing.
Considering that the tach was going in/out and the engine "hiccups" while trying to start occasionally lets try to eliminate the possibility of a loose wire or ground. The hiccup while starting sounds like a loose battery terminal or wire on the starter - check to make sure that the terminals to the starter and battery are clean. If the 12v or ground wire to the block at the starter is loose you will have all sorts of issues.

Another easy thing you can try is a good old fashioned jiggle test - with the engine running move the wiring harness behind the intake near the firewall and the one below the throttle body. If the motor cuts out or runs wierd, congratulations, you found the problem.

Considering you said all this started after you did the throttle body bypass, have you looked under the throttle body to make sure that the harness connections (there are 2 or 3 under it) are not full of antifreeze or corrosion? Any of them pulled apart?

If I were you, I would just pull the connections on the harness apart 1 by 1, inspect for corrosion / broken pins, then put some dielectric grease back in the connection and go to the next one. If nothing else it is cheap and easy to do.

 

[ViPER1313]

Not one mention of a dirty MAF sensor in this whole thread. Unplug that baby and see if it helps.

I've tried a MAF off another car, and a different DIS still with no changes.

Not the MAF, and after re-reading all this probably not the timing if the car idles smoothly.... Really does sound like a loose ground or that the timing isn't advancing.

Another thought - fuel pump? Have you checked fuel pressure at the rail? A weak fuel pump will cause surging acceleration, lean codes and weak top-end acceleration but the idle will be smooth. It can also make the car hard to start.

 

[93rev2sev]

So...where is Warrenville?

If you are in Warren, Michigan...PM me... I'll come look at it.

 

[Dasfinc]

Thanks for the reply all:

I tried cleaning the origonal maf, and then tried the maf off another car.

To be honest, the car runs the same with no MAF, and no CPS sensor *as its in limp mode*

With the SPOUT jumper unplugged, the slightest touch of the throttle basically kills the engine.

Back when I did my headswap on my civic, the car was off a tooth of timing, but still idled fine, but had no power, so timing is still a possiblity...

I'm becoming fearful that the valves are possibly going *Hence it worsening over time*

but why would that cause the car to be in limp mode???

 

[Dasfinc]

Also, I live now in Ottawa IL 61350.

Also, the STALLING started after the Bypass, the power loss has been getting worse since I purchased the car.

Is it common for the timing belt to jump teeth? I'm almost thinking maybe they jumped when the car was in an accident, and the valves have been burning up since, hence getting worse?

 

[Dasfinc]

And yet another thing to keep in mind, the rear bank is running lean, front is running rich, but its getting 8mpg regardless.

 

[techi14]

crank cancer...?... look it up symptoms kinda correlate with it.

 

[St Louis SHO]

I would check base timing (timing belt) It involves taking the front covers off of the motor.

 

[93rev2sev]

Is it common for the timing belt to jump teeth? I'm almost thinking maybe they jumped when the car was in an accident, and the valves have been burning up since, hence getting worse?

After double checking to see that this is an ATX...

Yes. It's not uncommon for ATX timing belts to jump teeth. The timing tensioner gets loose, the belt stretches, and it jumps teeth.

The easiest way to check if your timing set is loose is to pop off the top timing cover and attempt to deflect the timing belt by pushing down on the span between the cam gears. If it's easy to delfect, then I would not hesitate to suggest a new timing belt and tensioner(front 60k).

 

[Dasfinc]

Car is now for sale for $600

Still having no luck trying to fix this thing...

 

[RAYJAY]

I forgot to take into mind that motors were swapped. Pinched/loose wires anywhere by chance?

ding ding ding

sound like a wire harness problem to me


Jeff

 

[Dasfinc]

ding ding ding

sound like a wire harness problem to me


Jeff

Drove perfectly fine for 3 months after the swap was done, and the problem has been gradually getting worse over the past 4 months.

 

[RAYJAY]

Drove perfectly fine for 3 months after the swap was done, and the problem has been gradually getting worse over the past 4 months.

my 93 did to (no oil light o2 sensor problem right now) the harness that the rear o2 sensor goes to gets a lot of heat it also the main harness over the motor, and was the swap before the accident or after it,if it was after then the harness could of got damaged in it

Jeff