CircleTrack SHO

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PAracer

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About the subframe. When the old, stock subframe bushings wear out, the subframe will shift and cause issues for your alignment. If you were to make a set of aluminum subframe bushing with offset holes, you can shift the subframe to the passenger side to gain camber.

Have you enlarged the holes in the top of the front strut towers yet. This allows for slightly more camber adjustment. When you get to the point that the mounts rub the inside of the tower, you can either pound the sheet metal back for clearance, or stack a couple fender washers under the strut mount. There's also a company that sells adjustable tension rods to gain a little more castor. It is considered a stock replacement part, too.

This is really the problem with racing production cars. You have to search for ways of getting more camber/caster.

BTW, the Koni struts for the SHO are actually inserts that are installed in a stock housing. There is no tell from under the car. On top of the strut's rod, though, is the adjuster key. This is not easily hidden.

Ground Control offers a coilover kit that adds a threaded collar to the strut body. They also use standard spring sizes that are offered in various lengths and rates. You can go crazy and have the inspectors laugh in your face if you wanted. Anything you install should be aged and painted to look like the original. I guess a monoball conversion is out of the question.

A TwEECer is like the Diablo chip, but you can modify the programming at home on a computer. This would be great for you since you can tell the car to hold second gear for the entire track.

Honestly, your biggest gains will be finding a rear sway bar. A 22-23mm bar would be perfect. From there, you can alter the effective lever arm by adjusting the angle that the link acts on the bar. Your tire and wheel combo will also be critical. Finding a wider wheel will help reduce sidewall flex, while a shaved down and soaked tread will maximize available grip. The alignment will then be addressed to provide that final 10%.

I think you've found one of the best platforms out there for this kind of racing. :thumb: You've got a huge power advantage over everyone else, and once you have the handling sorted out, ooooohh boy!
 

PAracer

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In my FWD Circle Track Experience... I thought something in the 400# on the RF, 650# on the RR, and about 300# on the LS would be a good spring set up. Anyone with any feedback ?

Think the tech guys might notice that?:naughty:

I'm running 430/300 lbs springs right now. If I junp on the door sills, only the tires move. There isn't a damper out there for the SHO that will handle a 650lb spring.

Cut down Intrax springs with camo'ed koni struts might be a reasonable choice.
Ever think of takin ol' sneaky Pete as a co-pilot?:naughty:
 

naval-avi8or

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Quote:
Originally Posted by naval-avi8or
No one mentioned subframe connectors.

Can you expand on this for me...


It's an underbody mod that welds behind the body pinch seem (so its some what hidden) on both sides of vehical. It consist of a steel rectangular tube (hockey stick shaped) that connects the fwd subframe to the rear tension strut mounting frame work. This will really stiffen up the body and prevent body roll/twist when entering the corners.

Heres a plug for shobros garage but there are many different suppliers out there ranging any where from $60 to $120.

http://www.shobrosgarage.com/product_info.php?products_id=356
 

CircleTrackSHO

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Quote:
Originally Posted by naval-avi8or
No one mentioned subframe connectors.

Can you expand on this for me...


It's an underbody mod that welds behind the body pinch seem (so its some what hidden) on both sides of vehical. It consist of a steel rectangular tube (hockey stick shaped) that connects the fwd subframe to the rear tension strut mounting frame work. This will really stiffen up the body and prevent body roll/twist when entering the corners.

Heres a plug for shobros garage but there are many different suppliers out there ranging any where from $60 to $120.

http://www.shobrosgarage.com/product_info.php?products_id=356
I'm actually not sure on a Circle Track that I'd want to do that.. remember.. Open Diff, ATX tranny.. and I'm turning left only and almost constantly. If I stiffen up the front end too much, every time I turn, the left front is going to want to lift, and I'll spin that tire. It will "feel good", but it will go slow. At least, that's my intuition.. am I wrong ?
 

CircleTrackSHO

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Ever think of takin ol' sneaky Pete as a co-pilot?:naughty:
Sneaky Pete and Capt Jack Sparrow piloting Lord Voltimore.. love it. Oh.. I should explain.. the primary competition at the track is Russ "Harry" Potter.. if you don't get it... you need to read a book.
 

somedude_001

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Speaking of "open differential" is there a LSD for a SHO ? I think that would be an incredible performance enhancer..

no there isn't for the ATX, however there is one for the MTX tranny.

you want a big tip? wire in a toggle switch for your torque converter so your TC will lock up. once your going you will not likely need to shift out of second.

the rev limiter on your car is 4K neutral and 7K drive

GET A TRANS TEMP GAUGE!!!!! i promise you are cooking it if you havent installed a massive cooler you need to soon.

loose the A/C bracket it is very heavy and fab up solid engine mounts if the runles allow.

the rear sway bar will make a world of difference. if you thought it performed well now...

if you want to be number 2 for a LSD let me know then we just need to find 48 more people to get one :) lol
 

CircleTrackSHO

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you want a big tip? wire in a toggle switch for your torque converter so your TC will lock up. once your going you will not likely need to shift out of second.

GET A TRANS TEMP GAUGE!!!!! i promise you are cooking it if you havent installed a massive cooler you need to soon.

if you want to be number 2 for a LSD let me know then we just need to find 48 more people to get one :) lol

Can you give me instructions for wiring in the Torque Converter Switch.

Same for the Transmission Temperature Gauge.. what's the best transcooler and is there a salvage yard trans cooler from another make model which is plentiful cheap and nearly effecient ?

I read that SHOFAST Performance has constructed a LSD for the ATX. I also heard another guy has a LSD.. in this thread: http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=45436&highlight=lsd+atx and also Doug Lewis has a LSD for the ATX (according to this : http://www.shoforum.com/showpost.php?p=614301&postcount=5).

How would a Phantom Grip work ?
 

LOUDSHO92

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Supposedly the Phantom Grip might be okay for the ATX, but never for the MTX.

Would adjustable endlinks be allowed? You could use them to adjust the sway bars.
 

SASHO91

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reason I asked about stock replacement suspension items, was that you can get progressive springs that look stock. MOOG cargo coils are awesome, and very inexpensive.

You could couple those with Monroe Sensatracs and get the strut/spring combo out of the way while still flying under the radar (with a very decent setup). Summit has the Springs, and just about any auto store carries the struts. :thumb:

You could also run GenIII subframe bushings (im sure this has been noted), as technically, they are from a Taurus... they help with turn-in, and steering response. They can be had through a local ford dealer.
The PN for those are:
Upper--- F6D2-5400396-A @$13.02 ea.
Lower--- YF1Z-5400155-AA @$15.58 ea.
you'll need four of each.
 

CircleTrackSHO

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reason I asked about stock replacement suspension items, was that you can get progressive springs that look stock. MOOG cargo coils are awesome, and very inexpensive.

You could couple those with Monroe Sensatracs and get the strut/spring combo out of the way while still flying under the radar (with a very decent setup). Summit has the Springs, and just about any auto store carries the struts. :thumb:

You could also run GenIII subframe bushings (im sure this has been noted), as technically, they are from a Taurus... they help with turn-in, and steering response. They can be had through a local ford dealer.
The PN for those are:
Upper--- F6D2-5400396-A @$13.02 ea.
Lower--- YF1Z-5400155-AA @$15.58 ea.
you'll need four of each.
Ohhh.. Rickey Likey
 

SASHO91

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I have MOOG springs on Tokico struts, and the ride is anything but soft.

They are really a very good spring choice. And for the price, you really can't go wrong.. IIRC, the front's are 60 and the rears are close to that as well.
 

CircleTrackSHO

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Okay.. so it seems everyone is in agreement that the #1 most important thing is to get the rear sway bar back on.. and that a 26mm is the best option.

I like the idea of adjustable ends on the sway bar.. not sure why, how will they help me ? I've never had one which was adjustable, so I'm not knowledgble on how having adjustable ends will help.

The stock sway bar is not adjustable as I can tell, how do I make it adjustable.

And do you think for roundy-round that it would be cost effective ?

#2 item on the list is set front toe. I know for a fact that right now, I am toe-in about 3/4". And certainly that will cause a mighty push... we tried to fix it at the track, but the tie rod end was so rusted we couldn't break it loose and I didn't want to risk breaking it completely and losing the feature.

#3 -- I got to get more camber... In the 20 lap feature I burnt up the right front tire to the point that it shead the thread in 3 big chunks and I finished the last two laps on cords. After the 8 lap heat I had inside tire temp of 165, outside tire temp of 240. Not making that up. I have already moved the strut holes back an inch and in about 3/4".. we used a crow bar to pull it as far back and in as humanly possible (I think) so I need some creative ideas to find more.. I'm thinking if I lower the front end by cutting a coil off the spring, it will change the geometry and give me a bit more camber ?

I think unless someone else has a compelling argument, I'll limit the week one changes to those three things and then see how LV runs next weekend.

Thoughts/Comments ?
 
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CircleTrackSHO

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Question: Sub-Frame connectors will tighten up the front end. Since this is an open differential and since we are turning right only on a banked track... wouldn't making the front end "too tight" result in the left front tire lifting and causing it to spin free ? I was thinking of removing the front sway bar completely, but others think it would be better heavier and with a subframe connector.. what's the argument both ways regarding this thought from the resident board experts.
 

Shoaz

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Okay.. so it seems everyone is in agreement that the #1 most important thing is to get the rear sway bar back on.. and that a 26mm is the best option.

Not necessarily...that may be too much bar depending on what's on the front and how the rest of the car is set up. Going from zero bar to 26mm is going to be, well, exciting.

#2 item on the list is set front toe. I know for a fact that right now, I am toe-in about 3/4". And certainly that will cause a mighty push... we tried to fix it at the track, but the tie rod end was so rusted we couldn't break it loose and I didn't want to risk breaking it completely and losing the feature.

For the track zero toe to a little toe out is good. Circle track may have an optimum toe somewhere else, but I agree that 3/4" is a bit much. ;)

#3 -- I got to get more camber... In the 20 lap feature I burnt up the right front tire to the point that it shead the thread in 3 big chunks and I finished the last two laps on cords. After the 8 lap heat I had inside tire temp of 165, outside tire temp of 240. Not making that up. I have already moved the strut holes back an inch and in about 3/4".. we used a crow bar to pull it as far back and in as humanly possible (I think) so I need some creative ideas to find more.. I'm thinking if I lower the front end by cutting a coil off the spring, it will change the geometry and give me a bit more camber ?

Have you tried moving the subframe yet? As Mark (drivinhard) mentioned, the subframe can be moved around to affect camber and caster. There are four bolts on the bottom, just loosen them (they're quite long, the drivetrain won't drop just by loosening them), and then move the subframe as desired (there are alignment holes near the front subframe bushings...stick a socket wrench or something in there and you can shift the whole thing around). Moving the subframe forward adds caster, moving it left and right will change the amount of available camber on each side. Since you only turn left (correct?) I'd think moving the subframe forward and to the right will give you a lot of negative camber on the right side. Otherwise, just align it centered and as far forward as you can get it.
 

CircleTrackSHO

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For the track zero toe to a little toe out is good. Circle track may have an optimum toe somewhere else, but I agree that 3/4" is a bit much. ;)
Yup. I think about 1/4 to 1/2 out is probably best. We didn't check the toe after making the camber/caster adjustments, I'm going to presume it toe'd in when we made that change, or it was already out of adjustment before and we missed it.
 

92inPA

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1/2" toe out is way too much. For a short track, no more than 1/4", 3/16" would be about ideal. Definitely no less than 1/16". Buy or make a set of toe plates so you will be able to set toe consistently. And check/adjust toe EVERY WEEK.
7950.jpg

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/align2.htm

Remember to always measure/adjust caster first, then camber & toe last.
 

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