The HP Tuners Misconception: Control vs Abstraction on the EcoBoost SHO

[802SHO]

I’ve turned from customer to “data collector” haha!

At this point I’m now leaning into the rabbit hole wondering why multiple Green Oak OS variants fall into the same limit path. Either way, every log, file comparison, and dead-end seems to eliminate another variable.

Hopefully we’re getting closer to an actual answer instead of just another theory. Which again, is diagnostics. It’s just as much about eliminating possibilities as much as it is about finding a solution.

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

I’ve turned from customer to “data collector” haha!

At this point I’m now leaning into the rabbit hole wondering why multiple Green Oak OS variants fall into the same limit path. Either way, every log, file comparison, and dead-end seems to eliminate another variable.

Hopefully we’re getting closer to an actual answer instead of just another theory. Which again, is diagnostics. It’s just as much about eliminating possibilities as much as it is about finding a solution.

[mention]802SHO [/mention] I said the other day. Go to ford. Have a PCM software update done. Then read THAT file on HP tuners. You’ll then have your vin specific most current available strategy ford offers for car and your ECU.


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[802SHO]

They found it

 

[802SHO]

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

View attachment 97830

You did nothing. 3 PIDs and you think the world will move. You should probably focus on defining all of the HPFP parameters


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[SM105K]

You did nothing. 3 PIDs and you think the world will move. You should probably focus on defining all of the HPFP parameters


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What happens when he and everyone else he is working with cracks this, and it works? Will you and Simple Jack concede and admit you don't know everything?

 

[802SHO]

Good question. The Peanut Gallery is busy coming up with excuses while Ryan keeps getting things done. He just told me he’s talking to another friend at HP and they’re discussing some of the old Ford torque-model strategies people used on these cars. The goal isn’t to disable protections, it’s to get the PCM’s assumptions back in line with the engine that’s actually in the car.

Between the newly exposed brake torque limiter and some of the older modeling tricks they’re revisiting, it sounds like they’re working toward making the PCM’s math agree with reality instead of constantly fighting it.

Results are coming and this is what happens when you keep asking why instead of settling for “it’s the way it is.” Data receipts are much harder to ignore.

 

[802SHO]

More.

 

[Majestic]

What happens when he and everyone else he is working with cracks this, and it works? Will you and Simple Jack concede and admit you don't know everything?

I'd love to see this car actually rip. Not sure I've ever seen a build take this long, particularly due to tuning problems. The AI and shit-slinging by Andrew has turned a bunch of people off.

 

[SM105K]

I'd love to see this car actually rip. Not sure I've ever seen a build take this long, particularly due to tuning problems. The AI and shit-slinging by Andrew has turned a bunch of people off.

I am pretty sure it is going to rip. It has all the right parts, and it looks like there is real progress being made with the Green Oak ECU.

When you literally rebuild an entire car from the ground up while modifying it, is there really a set timeline? I don’t think so. This wasn’t just tuning problems — it was a combination of numerous issues that had to be worked through. If more people attempted what Andrew is doing, I think many would run into some of the same challenges.

AI has actually been a great tool in this process and, if I’m not mistaken, helped identify quite a few of the build-related issues — not necessarily tuning problems. The “shit-slinging” may have turned some people away, but it also brought a lot of information into the open about tuning, theory, and the process itself. Everyone gets tribal, feathers get ruffled — that’s just the internet.

We should thank Andrew for going this deep and continuing the journey. I believe there is a certain white SHO that is going to be a huge benefactor if all of this works out.

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

I think the whole point that has went over both of your heads. Is this has all started from Matt declining to to tune the car because for YEARS he’s requested this support for the ECU. Now you are finally starting to get some feedback from HP which is awesome. But there have been times I’ve had the engineers “add” parameters and they changed nothing. Typically you have to give them the ECM number you want added. Either way by this point you could’ve switched ECUs to a 2013+ and your car would be doing whatever it needs to do. We’ve all tried giving you advice but you do not listen you only listen to AI. Which has falsely made you believe you have any intelligence whatsoever.


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[SM105K]

I think the whole point that has went over both of your heads. Is this has all started from Matt declining to to tune the car because for YEARS he’s requested this support for the ECU. Now you are finally starting to get some feedback from HP which is awesome. But there have been times I’ve had the engineers “add” parameters and they changed nothing. Typically you have to give them the ECM number you want added. Either way by this point you could’ve switched ECUs to a 2013+ and your car would be doing whatever it needs to do. We’ve all tried giving you advice but you do not listen you only listen to AI. Which has falsely made you believe you have any intelligence whatsoever.


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I understand the point you’re making, and I don’t think anyone is ignoring the fact that Matt has been asking for ECU support for years. The progress with HP is definitely a positive step, and hopefully it opens some doors that weren’t available before.

My point wasn’t that there weren’t other possible paths or that everyone’s advice was wrong. It was that this type of build has a lot of moving parts, and sometimes the path isn’t as straightforward as it looks from the outside. Switching ECUs may have been a solution, but there are reasons people choose to push forward with the platform they started with — especially when trying to learn what is possible. Plus ECU swaps suck. I know from personal experience.

As far as AI goes, it’s just a tool. It doesn’t replace hands-on experience, engineering, or people who have been doing this for years. In this case, it helped organize information, troubleshoot ideas, and identify areas worth looking into. That doesn’t mean every suggestion is correct.

At the end of the day, I think the value is in the amount of information being uncovered. Whether someone agrees with the approach or not, pushing through these issues has taught the community more about the ECU, tuning, and the platform. Remember the 10-12 ECU have always be a thorn in the side for numerous tuners, if this becomes a viable solution then what?

 

[Majestic]

I understand the point you’re making, and I don’t think anyone is ignoring the fact that Matt has been asking for ECU support for years. The progress with HP is definitely a positive step, and hopefully it opens some doors that weren’t available before.

My point wasn’t that there weren’t other possible paths or that everyone’s advice was wrong. It was that this type of build has a lot of moving parts, and sometimes the path isn’t as straightforward as it looks from the outside. Switching ECUs may have been a solution, but there are reasons people choose to push forward with the platform they started with — especially when trying to learn what is possible. Plus ECU swaps suck. I know from personal experience.

As far as AI goes, it’s just a tool. It doesn’t replace hands-on experience, engineering, or people who have been doing this for years. In this case, it helped organize information, troubleshoot ideas, and identify areas worth looking into. That doesn’t mean every suggestion is correct.

At the end of the day, I think the value is in the amount of information being uncovered. Whether someone agrees with the approach or not, pushing through these issues has taught the community more about the ECU, tuning, and the platform. Remember the 10-12 ECU have always be a thorn in the side for numerous tuners, if this becomes a viable solution then what?

Then what? You really think anyone is going to go back to the old ECU if they already have a newer one? Crazy talk.

 

[SM105K]

Then what? You really think anyone is going to go back to the old ECU if they already have a newer one? Crazy talk.

This for the 10-12 cars only. No need to go back to the old ECU if you have the 13+.........

 

[802SHO]

I’m sure Matt has been asking for support. Maybe he did. I have no reason to doubt that. But there’s a huge difference between “I’ve asked for support.”
and
“Here’s the OS.
Here’s the log.
Here’s the limiter.
Here’s another OS showing the same behavior. Here’s a reproducible case.”

Engineering responds best to reproducible problems. I think the reason this moved so fast at the end wasn’t because someone asked. It was because suddenly there was a pile of evidence

The funniest part is the peanut gallery wanted the story to end with: “See? It was impossible.”

Instead it may end with: “Definitions updated in the next beta.”

 

[802SHO]

All I’ve done is relentlessly push “Ok, but WHY is it doing that?”

And changes are happening. That’s pretty cool. Not just for my car but all 10-12 I’m pretty sure. I’ll have to check with David his OS was updated too.

 

[802SHO]

YES!!!! David’s ‘12 OS has it from David: Ok now I wanna get my car back together cuz that’s been holding me back from being deep into the 11s at full weight

That’s what I’m talking about! He’s no longer stuck

 

[Sleeper.Solutions86]

I also said you could have a PCM software update done on IDS at a local ford dealer. Read that new file that has the updated OS for your fine. And flash it back to whatever you’ve had the car on to drive it home. I have personally done this for HP 2 years ago.


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