Technical Discussion of Methanol Injection (formerly GH Tuning and 100% meth injection don’t mix - Courtesy of 802SHO)

[mattr66usa]

@mattr66usa, this could really be a good thread for a lot of us if we stick to tuning aspects/theories. I

I started a thread that is technical in nature and would love to put it all out there and have already given a good explanation if you go over there. I have no secrets and contrarily to what 802sho is insinuating, there isn't anything magical about methanol. It is just a high-octane fuel that is added to an existing system, but it is external and not monitored by the pcm up front (flow wise). At one time I was contemplating working on a special OS build with HP tuners to allow methanol flow to be monitored by the PCM directly, but it would require a lot of work to implement with not a wide range of adoption. There are responsible ways to tune with it for the people who may forget to fill a tank or get an air bubble in the line for example.

 

[mattr66usa]

I’m going to make a dedicated 100% meth thread dedicated to brand awareness, install, testing, what it’s like having a tuner not use it and the difference of a tuner that does.

My entire existence as 802SHO was born from methanol bc I literally joined the EcoboostPerfomanceforum just to be able to contact AJPTurbo. I made one introduction as 802SHO and sent Brad a DM.

The very backbone of my car and success is with 100% methanol. I was molded by it, sharpened by it, defined by it and forged in the combustion of it.

Every single track slip of mine has 100% methanol in it. Without 100% methanol 802SHO doesn’t exist.

Well at least you are using alcohol in your car in this case.

 

[mattr66usa]

Since you can't keep things technical in this thread, let's try again:

Tuning Technical Point #1 - What is MBT timing?

I will ask the mods to remove any response in this thread that isn't strictly technical in nature. I'm going to keep this semi-relative so I will over-generalize a few things so if this confuses anyone, or you want better elaboration, let me know. MBT Timing: MBT Timing is the timing at which...

shoforum.com

 

[mattr66usa]

And boy oh boy thanks for offering to tune my 2010. But you backing out and not even trying was unbelievable. But that’s ok bc this new version SHO breaks the mold that type of tuning is built for. So it never would have worked

No I said I don't want to tune it at this time because the parameters to make the injectors and fuel pump work properly do not exist in the software like they do on the 13+ PCMs. This is the reason another famous 10-12 blew up in the hands of the tuner when the injectors decided to slam closed randomly at WOT. But keep twisting the narrative to suit yourself.

But I've said this multiple times now. Your tuner will also be at the mercy of HPT or SCT to add these missing parameters. Again, you don't understand, and you decided to TRY and flame me for telling you the truth. I'm going to laugh like a crazy person when you convert to a 13+ PCM or something else to control your car. But now that I've said it, you will never try and will now stay stuck with your limited system so that should seal your fate for your project. Your 1-off car in no way represents my customer base because nobody in their right mind would try and make a race car out of something so limited without addressing those limitations first. You have spent all this money and have refused to listen to anyone trying to help you that actually knows what the **** is going on.

You can keep spouting this crazy narrative like you are slaying dragons and pretending you are Luke Skywalker or whatever makes you feel good about your poor choices, but just know you aren't affecting me one bit. In fact, you are actually helping my business because I have people coming to me after seeing how you have acted here and on Facebook. They are telling me you have been professing to know things that they now understand you don't and no longer trust your recommendations.

Thank you for helping me out Andrew!
Matt

 

[Dmason18704]

So im posting here solely because its got 2 of the 3 guys I always see there names being mentioned when it comes to these cars, an after doing a lil following can ascertain that even though it may not be the same response if both reply its answers I feel are is gonna be some of if not the best answers available.. I apologize for it being way off topic but here goes be several questions to btw.. I currently have a 13 an a 16 non pp shos.. 16 is my daily 13 was got for cheap w some performance parts I wanted an having some identical ones both have tunes 16 is gh ao 13 is livernois an told 4 options including 93 octane. Both have catless down pipes(13 needs motor replaced cracked cyclinder 5 does have 180k) both have eco power parts cai intake.
Not fully descided if 13 will be a doner or track car.. the 16 has 85k ish (currently getting wp an timing done on it)..



Questions are..
1. Debating on upgrading turbos on the 16 for a street/strip car what are some of the better turbo options? (Assume Matt to say gh want to compare gains w price). Seen stages 1-3 from various places 3s having i wanna say 40.6mm vs 34ish stocks. If stage 3 is couple hundred more than 2 would to the over ****.

2. Assuming the answers are no but honestly just guessing.. can livernois tune be put into my 16 (returning both to stock first) id like to have a peak performance option available for bits of track/ race time I manage but know myself to well to say that'd be good idea for me, my liscense, an insurance. I feel like my ao tune gives me great gains w/o sacrificing reliability an would wanna use it for my day to day.. an only say livernois due to fact of having programed already an figure be just getting tunes if nessecary vs them an programmer throwing big money at something that will be used 10% or less of the time is kinda dumb..

16 does also have mrt axel back exhaust an a gh intercooler (taking time on its install till I figure out what my plan is turbo wise))



Sorry for the long not related post honestly just hoping to get input from both

 

[kryptto]

Debating on upgrading turbos on the 16 for a street/strip car what are some of the better turbo options? (Assume Matt to say gh want to compare gains w price). Seen stages 1-3 from various places 3s having i wanna say 40.6mm vs 34ish stocks. If stage 3 is couple hundred more than 2 would to the over ****.

I would personally go with the options at CR performance. the biggest questions to ask yourself fast spool speeds or higher end boost to push the car thru the 1/4?

I am not going to debate the vendor differences, but this would be my option with tarrifs and all. they can speak to you about your goals and that would be my direction, they provide bench tests and certified turbos when completed.

 

[kryptto]

can livernois tune be put into my 16 (returning both to stock first) id like to have a peak performance option available for bits of track/ race time I manage but know myself to well to say that'd be good idea for me, my liscense

as far as tuning, my go to for you is not Livernois. look we have people here including yourself that use them...

I would go AJP - or 5 Star Tuning, if you want the call in aspect to talk with someone go 5 Star, if you have certain exhaust needs go with AJP. His email is here on these forums just do a search. If 5 star isn't good enough, Unleahed is next on my list. Good luck.

 

[Dmason18704]

I would personally go with the options at CR performance. the biggest questions to ask yourself fast spool speeds or higher end boost to push the car thru the 1/4?

I am not going to debate the vendor differences, but this would be my option with tarrifs and all. they can speak to you about your goals and that would be my direction, they provide bench tests and certified turbos when completed.

I was looking at them the other day an on there home page said wasnt shipping to the us an even there in stock stuff couldn't add to cart

 

[kryptto]

I was looking at them the other day an on there home page said wasnt shipping to the us an even there in stock stuff couldn't add to cart

Give them a call and see you are paying the cost of tarrifs to ship into US.

 

[802SHO]

I second CR Performance. When I bought my GH turbos they were only $1,900. Since their prices have gone way up I’d go with CR Performance. CRP I believe are in the World’s Fastest Explorer ST, stage 5 as far as I know.

I think you were trying to ask if you could flash to stock and load your 13 Livernois tunes to your 16? You cannot bc the tunes are only compatible with your strategy ID.

AJPTurbo would be my first pick. His email is [email protected]. He’s also an authorized SCT Dealer. You can even get XDI pumps from him. Reach out.

My second choice would be Engineered Motorsport Solutions. They tune many different EcoBoosts. You’d need to switch to HP Tuners (Software upgrade from SCT). They are all business, tuning EcoBoosts with Cobb, HP Tuners and MoTeC. They are also an authorized MoTeC distributor, installer and ..obviously tuner also. The World’s Fastest EcoBoost Record is there’s. 8.41 @ 162MPH

 

[mattr66usa]

Questions are..
1. Debating on upgrading turbos on the 16 for a street/strip car what are some of the better turbo options? (Assume Matt to say gh want to compare gains w price). Seen stages 1-3 from various places 3s having i wanna say 40.6mm vs 34ish stocks. If stage 3 is couple hundred more than 2 would to the over ****.

Well make sure your choice of turbochargers addresses both sides of the turbo. The Gearhead gen 3 turbos run close to the same compressor as the Stage 3 CR (40.5 Inducer) but actually put a larger turbine (exhaust wheel) in the units as well. I didn't realize that people didn't realize that until someone tried to point that out in another thread as a point of weakness.

2. Assuming the answers are no but honestly just guessing.. can livernois tune be put into my 16 (returning both to stock first) id like to have a peak performance option available for bits of track/ race time I manage but know myself to well to say that'd be good idea for me, my liscense, an insurance. I feel like my ao tune gives me great gains w/o sacrificing reliability an would wanna use it for my day to day.. an only say livernois due to fact of having programed already an figure be just getting tunes if nessecary vs them an programmer throwing big money at something that will be used 10% or less of the time is kinda dumb..

There is no reason you can't have an AO file that gives max power on pump gas, but once you get a HPFP and turbo upgrade you can make power on E30 to the point you can start stressing the stock transmission if you are looking for max power.