Setting the Record Straight and 802 SHO Has a Problem with Me

[802SHO]

Sad the legit info flew straight over @SHOCALL and @TheRedBeardedFury.

You guys can continued to take large spoonfuls of Matt’s nonsense with enthusiasm. Neither of you can mention one technical argument. That’s says it all.

 

[802SHO]

Two basic laws, and neither is negotiable. Methanol is not, and never will be, “just cooling.” It is fuel mass, octane, and combustion control. Any amount of methanol, at any concentration, must be tuned for. There is no safe or intelligent version of “let the car level it out.”

Platform progress works exactly like a turbo system. Ideas are airflow. Testing is mass flow. Data is the pressure differential that keeps everything moving.

When one authority becomes the default answer and the tooling can’t measure the real constraint, the platform stops being airflow-limited and becomes drive-pressure limited. Heat goes up. Noise goes up. Confidence goes up. Actual flow does not.

That’s when people start mistaking choke for a hard limit. VE drops, MBT plateaus, and the conclusion becomes “the engine is done,” when in reality the exhaust side is done swallowing everything it can.

Remove the restriction, add real instrumentation, and those supposed limits move immediately. They always do. In both engines and communities, the loudest component is rarely the one doing the most work—but it can absolutely be the one causing the choke.

 

[mattr66usa]

Two basic laws, and neither is negotiable. Methanol is not, and never will be, “just cooling.” It is fuel mass, octane, and combustion control. Any amount of methanol, at any concentration, must be tuned for. There is no safe or intelligent version of “let the car level it out.”

Platform progress works exactly like a turbo system. Ideas are airflow. Testing is mass flow. Data is the pressure differential that keeps everything moving.

When one authority becomes the default answer and the tooling can’t measure the real constraint, the platform stops being airflow-limited and becomes drive-pressure limited. Heat goes up. Noise goes up. Confidence goes up. Actual flow does not.

That’s when people start mistaking choke for a hard limit. VE drops, MBT plateaus, and the conclusion becomes “the engine is done,” when in reality the exhaust side is done swallowing everything it can.

Remove the restriction, add real instrumentation, and those supposed limits move immediately. They always do. In both engines and communities, the loudest component is rarely the one doing the most work—but it can absolutely be the one causing the choke.

Here's your chance..... Keep it technical and you can tell me what I'm doing so wrong..... Let's start here: https://shoforum.com/threads/tuning-technical-point-1-what-is-mbt-timing.147778/

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

Sad the legit info flew straight over @SHOCALL and @TheRedBeardedFury.

You guys can continued to take large spoonfuls of Matt’s nonsense with enthusiasm. Neither of you can mention one technical argument. That’s says it all.

I don't think anything flew over my head. My head actually hurts trying to read 75% of what you type though. You've yet to be on any of the technical post contributing with facts or explanations yourself. At least I can admit I can't contribute to it and I'm interested to actually read it and understand it. Btw I'm not tuned by @mattr66usa but considering he's the only one here taking his time to explain how he does it and how it works why wouldn't I want to be tuned by him? Majority of us are interested in facts not hunting through a comment trying to decipher what might be a fact with a ton of nonsense added to it. Also I'm not interested in my car sitting in a garage for years unable to perform nor am I interested in spraying meth at the moment. The sho is a family sadan and I use it as such with the ability to have a little fun when I want to. Like someone with some sense once said, efficiency is important. I could have bought a 10 second car from the factory and spent less then trying to force something to go 10 seconds if that's what I was interested in. Oh and I do actually like your car. It's just a shame it's where it's at. I guess you'd rather your car sit in a garage and chase something then to be out on the street enjoying it with others.

 

[802SHO]

I don't think anything flew over my head. My head actually hurts trying to read 75% of what you type though. You've yet to be on any of the technical post contributing with facts or explanations yourself. At least I can admit I can't contribute to it and I'm interested to actually read it and understand it. Btw I'm not tuned by @mattr66usa but considering he's the only one here taking his time to explain how he does it and how it works why wouldn't I want to be tuned by him? Majority of us are interested in facts not hunting through a comment trying to decipher what might be a fact with a ton of nonsense added to it. Also I'm not interested in my car sitting in a garage for years unable to perform nor am I interested in spraying meth at the moment. The sho is a family sadan and I use it as such with the ability to have a little fun when I want to. Like someone with some sense once said, efficiency is important. I could have bought a 10 second car from the factory and spent less then trying to force something to go 10 seconds if that's what I was interested in. Oh and I do actually like your car. It's just a shame it's where it's at. I guess you'd rather your car sit in a garage and chase something then to be out on the street enjoying it with others.

Dude smoke another one seriously.

 

[Majestic]

This whole thing has gone from mildly entertaining to wildly stupid. IF you, 802SHO, think Matt can't tune worth a shit, then just say so and leave him alone. You increasingly sound like the proverbial sour grapes fox. YOU, and apparently everyone else, can't get your mega-buck, stripped out Taurus to make a full pass and you are so frustrated that you are taking it out on one of the few reputable tuners left.

Maybe I've missed it, but I don't recall Brad posting anything at all about Matt's lack of tuning skill or knowledge. What I HAVE seen is tons of people pleased with their GH tunes. Unless, and until, you post a 10 second or lower pass, it would appear that you've welded, bolted, plasti-dipped and wire-nutted your money pit into a nice/weird looking Taurus shell that won't outrun a shadow. If I were Matt, I'd just forget you and carry on tuning for the 99% of the market with cars that actually run.

 

[802SHO]

This whole thing has gone from mildly entertaining to wildly stupid. IF you, 802SHO, think Matt can't tune worth a shit, then just say so and leave him alone. You increasingly sound like the proverbial sour grapes fox. YOU, and apparently everyone else, can't get your mega-buck, stripped out Taurus to make a full pass and you are so frustrated that you are taking it out on one of the few reputable tuners left.

Maybe I've missed it, but I don't recall Brad posting anything at all about Matt's lack of tuning skill or knowledge. What I HAVE seen is tons of people pleased with their GH tunes. Unless, and until, you post a 10 second or lower pass, it would appear that you've welded, bolted, plasti-dipped and wire-nutted your money pit into a nice/weird looking Taurus shell that won't outrun a shadow. If I were Matt, I'd just forget you and carry on tuning for the 99% of the market with cars that actually run.

You’re misreading both my build and the discussion—this isn’t bolt-on and tune, it’s a complex speed-density setup where I’m challenging specific technical claims about methanol, VE, MBT, and platform limits, and I’m not interested in turning that into a personality or scoreboard argument.

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

Dude smoke another one seriously.

I don't smoke but thanks for the offer. Maybe you should lay off it some......

 

[802SHO]

I don't smoke but thanks for the offer. Maybe you should lay off it some......

I don’t so you don’t know the answer? I thought for sure Cheerleading you actually knew what was being discussed? It’s ok you can google it if you want?

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

I don’t so you don’t know the answer? I thought for sure Cheerleading you actually knew what was being discussed? It’s ok you can google it if you want?

The answer to what question? The one you tagged me in on another tread I'm not apart of? Also I stated here why I wasn't apart of that thread and why. Not sure where you got cheerleading from. I only stated I was interested in the post and learning from it. Why attack me? I never said anything to you until you tagged me. Do you want a purple cookie because you claim to know more then I do? Well congrats big dawg on that achievement.

 

[802SHO]

The answer to what question? The one you tagged me in on another tread I'm not apart of? Also I stated here why I wasn't apart of that thread and why. Not sure where you got cheerleading from. I only stated I was interested in the post and learning from it. Why attack me? I never said anything to you until you tagged me. Do you a purple cookie because you claim to know more then I do? Well congrats big dawg on that achievement.

Liking Matt’s MBT Explanation that also contradicted his statement wasn’t being a part of it? Not understanding but clapping is like Cheerleading in a way. You don’t know how to play or know what the concepts truly mean but you’re rooting for your side. Earlier you said I didn’t make any good points or show any data. So either you didn’t read or you didn’t understand it.

Yeah I asked you a question bc if you’re so invested to comment why can’t you articulate anything technical? Do you have any questions for me about what I said or need anything explained? Or are you Happy just to contribute noise in a debate over physics?

Just noise then?

 

[SHO-moco]

The answer to what question? The one you tagged me in on another tread I'm not apart of? Also I stated here why I wasn't apart of that thread and why. Not sure where you got cheerleading from. I only stated I was interested in the post and learning from it. Why attack me? I never said anything to you until you tagged me. Do you a purple cookie because you claim to know more then I do? Well congrats big dawg on that achievement.

I have to agree, your comment was very respectful of both parties and admitting your own lack of knowledge but eagerness to learn. That was then immediately attacked by 802, definitely got that superiority complex vibe from that. I do not have the technical knowhow on this level either hence why I stayed mostly quiet. I do have a GH tune, I do Like it for my uses, I do not have any personal relationship with the tuner himself, His tunes work for 99% of people. I had said that I am into the big gains and out of box thinking that 802 seems to go down. But these baseless attacks on random folks, and the constant use of Chatbots to do your thinking, debating, arguing for you is making it harder and harder to take things you say seriously, **** you even named the dang thing you 2 are so closely connected now .

Here is a question I will pose: How many people has all your work, time, effort, money, (skill?) helped? How many parts have you designed and then produced for the COMMUNITY? ... Now, lets ask that same question of GH... But I'm pretty sure most all of us know which way that scale is tipping.

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

Liking Matt’s MBT Explanation that also contradicted his statement wasn’t being a part of it? Not understanding but clapping is like Cheerleading in a way. You don’t know how to play or know what the concepts truly mean but you’re rooting for your side. Earlier you said I didn’t make any good points or show any data. So either you didn’t read or you didn’t understand it.

Yeah I asked you a question bc if you’re so invested to comment why can’t you articulate anything technical? Do you have any questions for me about what I said or need anything explained? Or are you Happy just to contribute noise in a debate over physics?

Just noise then?

You truly are in your own little world arnt you? Liking a post doesn't mean anything other than I was there and read it. A thumbs up and clapping are two different things if your unaware. Also did I pick a side or is that an poorly judged assumption in that big brain? Earlier I said you had yet to bring your points over there and keep it purely technical instead of the ramblings. Do you have an issue reading? I again already stated why I haven't commented over there here. Maybe go up and read the original comment. Do you only respond to things you think you can win and ignore the rest or what?

 

[802SHO]

I have to agree, your comment was very respectful of both parties and admitting your own lack of knowledge but eagerness to learn. That was then immediately attacked by 802, definitely got that superiority complex vibe from that. I do not have the technical knowhow on this level either hence why I stayed mostly quiet. I do have a GH tune, I do Like it for my uses, I do not have any personal relationship with the tuner himself, His tunes work for 99% of people. I had said that I am into the big gains and out of box thinking that 802 seems to go down. But these baseless attacks on random folks, and the constant use of Chatbots to do your thinking, debating, arguing for you is making it harder and harder to take things you say seriously, **** you even named the dang thing you 2 are so closely connected now .

Here is a question I will pose: How many people has all your work, time, effort, money, (skill?) helped? How many parts have you designed and then produced for the COMMUNITY? ... Now, lets ask that same question of GH... But I'm pretty sure most all of us know which way that scale is tipping.

Ok, let’s be clear.

I’ve contributed materially to this platform. That includes developing real copper-Kevlar clutch solutions that are still in testing, an LSD conversion, a returnless-to-return fuel system conversion, resolving a real-world TCM power fault, and multiple how-to threads covering drivetrain, fueling, and electrical work. I also produced and sold a cosmetic splitter before moving on to a functional chassis splitter. There’s more, and it’s all documented publicly.

So this idea that I “haven’t helped anyone” is simply false.

More importantly, contributing parts or services does not excuse spreading half-truths. Adding value in one area does not justify fencing the platform in with incomplete or misleading technical narratives in another. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and one does not cancel out the other.

If you’re comfortable accepting simplified explanations or limits without understanding the underlying physics, that’s your choice. But if you don’t have anything technical to add—specifically regarding methanol as a fuel, speed-density behavior, drive pressure, VE, or MBT—then there’s no reason to be commenting in those discussions at all.

This isn’t about sides, personalities, or popularity. It’s about whether the information being repeated is complete and accurate. If you disagree, then challenge the physics. Otherwise, you’re just adding noise to a technical discussion.

 

[802SHO]

You truly are in your own little world arnt you? Liking a post doesn't mean anything other than I was there and read it. A thumbs up and clapping are two different things if your unaware. Also did I pick a side or is that a poorly judged assumption in that big brain? Earlier I said you had yet to bring your points over there and keep it purely technical instead of the ramblings. Do you have an issue reading? I again already stated why I haven't commented over there here. Maybe go up and read the original comment. Do you only respond to things you think you can win and ignore the rest or what?

I made a thread about this, my points are there. Matt’s side threads were meant for someone like you, an alternate audience. If you’ve been paying attention every time Matt gets cornered he changes the topic, narrative and usually goes for “you don’t understand”.

This isn’t the original thread. Matt hasn’t won in any debate that’s the hilarious part. If you know what’s being said. Even his MBT thread he contradicted himself in his opening statement with a half-truth. Whatever man, stay in the dark. Come to the light when you’re ready.

The saddest part of all this is Matt doesn’t lose any business when ppl know the whole truth. It’s just the 1% Racers can make informed decisions. His customer base is 99% of ppl who aren’t even trying to push it. So his defense is odd in and of itself.

 

[802SHO]

This isn’t about sides or tone.

In a speed-density system, VE and MBT are not fixed properties — they shift with pumping losses and exhaust backpressure.

If you disagree, explain how rising drive pressure does not alter effective VE and MBT at higher RPM. If you can’t address that directly, there’s nothing technical left to discuss.

 

[mattr66usa]

This isn’t about sides or tone.

In a speed-density system, VE and MBT are not fixed properties — they shift with pumping losses and exhaust backpressure.

If you disagree, explain how rising drive pressure does not alter effective VE and MBT at higher RPM. If you can’t address that directly, there’s nothing technical left to discuss.

I don't disagree take it over to the technical thread.

 

[TheRedBeardedFury]

I made a thread about this, my points are there. Matt’s side threads were meant for someone like you, an alternate audience. If you’ve been paying attention every time Matt gets cornered he changes the topic, narrative and usually goes for “you don’t understand”.

This isn’t the original thread. Matt hasn’t won in any debate that’s the hilarious part. If you know what’s being said. Even his MBT thread he contradicted himself in his opening statement with a half-truth. Whatever man, stay in the dark. Come to the light when you’re ready.

The saddest part of all this is Matt doesn’t lose any business when ppl know the whole truth. It’s just the 1% Racers can make informed decisions. His customer base is 99% of ppl who aren’t even trying to push it. So his defense is odd in and of itself.

I'm very aware of what you and him have both said from the very beginning. I'm not so sure he's been cornered tho. I don't go off of assumptions. Am I the alternate audience or are you in the 1% the alternate audience? He made 2 very detailed post that you reframed from being technical on yet you want the technical conversation so what gives there? You go there and post 5 different comments tagging people who already said they couldn't contribute technically but was interested in learning. Your right matts customer base isn't going to change so what's the point in trying to cook him or anyone else for that matter? You also state it's not about sides but accuse me of being on one over liking a post?

 

[SHOCALL]

Dude smoke another one seriously.

Dude, put the glass pipe down.
You're losing.
"Some folks look for answers, others just for fights."
Which one are you?

 

[802SHO]

Dude, put the glass pipe down.
You're losing.
"Some folks look for answers, others just for fights."
Which one are you?

Be specific. What did I lose?