2011 motor in a 2017 what are the differences?

[shoblock]

I looked heavily into rebuilding my engine but could not find anyone that does the cylinder coating

Cylinder coating? Not necessary. The blocks have iron alloy sleeves in the cylinders. If your changing the pistions, you just have to re-hone. What exactly is wrong with your 17 motor?
The timing set from the 17 won't fit on the 11.
SHOBLOCK

 

[Kingsped]

What are the differences between a 2011 engine and a 2017 engine In regards to an engine swap? I have a 2011 motor that I will be putting in a 2017, I’m sure someone has done it before. Does anyone know what problems come with this swap and what do I need to swap from my current engine to the next one?

I put a 2016 out of an Police Explorer in my 2010 Flex and all I had to do was swap out some of the sensors from my 10 to the 16 and it's been absolutely perfect for me...
One thing I should mention is do not forget to use the tone ring from your engine, I learned that the hard way and I ended up having to pull the motor out again to do it...
I don't remember exactly what sensors I had to swap out but I'm pretty sure someone else has already posted a list of them on this form...

 

[Kingsped]

Someone here tried to put a newer motor in a 2010-2012 and had issues. I'll see if I can find the post and link it.

Edit - WSHO is the one who had all the problems. I don't think he made a dedicated thread but he had commented in other threads about it.

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

 

[shoblock]

I put a 2016 out of an Police Explorer in my 2010 Flex and all I had to do was swap out some of the sensors from my 10 to the 16 and it's been absolutely perfect for me...
One thing I should mention is do not forget to use the tone ring from your engine, I learned that the hard way and I ended up having to pull the motor out again to do it...
I don't remember exactly what sensors I had to swap out but I'm pretty sure someone else has already posted a list of them on this form...

Good to know. I guess if you keep all of the internal parts original, it's just a matter of the tone ring and sensors. Internal parts won't interchange easily. This knowledge is out of my wheelhouse.

SHOBLOCK

 

[Bluezone]

I believe the coil packs might be different too. Don't remember when the switch over date was but early and late cars have different coils.

 

[Stefano]

Cylinder coating? Not necessary. The blocks have iron alloy sleeves in the cylinders. If your changing the pistions, you just have to re-hone. What exactly is wrong with your 17 motor?
The timing set from the 17 won't fit on the 11.
SHOBLOCK

I read that our motors have a PTWA a thin but hard coating instead of using a traditional sleeve. My 17 had an injector going out intermittently so I regretfully tried to limp it home because I was in the middle of nowhere and I ended up with some tiny scratches at the very top of cylinder 4

 

[shoblock]

I read that our motors have a PTWA a thin but hard coating instead of using a traditional sleeve. My 17 had an injector going out intermittently so I regretfully tried to limp it home because I was in the middle of nowhere and I ended up with some tiny scratches at the very top of cylinder 4

Wrong, No SHO motor ever had a coating. Some other high performance Ford applications used the coating, including v-8's and possibly the Ford GT. For us, there are six sleeves cast into every block, capped by the aluminum parent metal at the top. If you look closely, you will see a change in coloration for maybe 2-3mm at the top of each cylinder. This may be the scratched area you see which would have no effect on performance. This thin area is not touched by the piston rings.
Send a photo to be sure, but I would just re-hone and use that block, or get a short block and re-assemble using '17 part numbers.

 

[Stefano]

Wrong, No SHO motor ever had a coating. Some other high performance Ford applications used the coating, including v-8's and possibly the Ford GT. For us, there are six sleeves cast into every block, capped by the aluminum parent metal at the top. If you look closely, you will see a change in coloration for maybe 2-3mm at the top of each cylinder. This may be the scratched area you see which would have no effect on performance. This thin area is not touched by the piston rings.
Send a photo to be sure, but I would just re-hone and use that block, or get a short block and re-assemble using '17 part numbers.

 

[Stefano]

I have a picture from a scope camera but I can get a better picture when I get off work. I’ve talked about this with multiple mechanics and machine shops telling me the block is toast. Now I’m learning they are possibly completely wrong

 

[shoblock]

I have a picture from a scope camera but I can get a better picture when I get off work. I’ve talked about this with multiple mechanics and machine shops telling me the block is toast. Now I’m learning they are possibly completely wrong

I can't tell anything from the photo. Did you try putting a new injector in? When you say 'top' of cylinder four, do you mean 2-3mm below the head deck? Does 'tiny' mean measurable in microns? Are those scratches going up and down the bore longitudinally?
SHOBLOCK

 

[Stefano]

I can't tell anything from the photo. Did you try putting a new injector in? When you say 'top' of cylinder four, do you mean 2-3mm below the head deck? Does 'tiny' mean measurable in microns? Are those scratches going up and down the bore longitudinally?
SHOBLOCK

Yes the photo is hard to see but no i haven’t put an injector in yet. I shut it down but had to crank up to get off the road but when I cranked it up it blew the head gasket from the unburnt fuel. I haven’t had much time, until now, to do anything with it. The “scratches” that i can see are up and down with the piston movement. They seem to be maybe 1/4 inch or so. I’m pulling the head now to get a better look

 

[shoblock]

Yes the photo is hard to see but no i haven’t put an injector in yet. I shut it down but had to crank up to get off the road but when I cranked it up it blew the head gasket from the unburnt fuel. I haven’t had much time, until now, to do anything with it. The “scratches” that i can see are up and down with the piston movement. They seem to be maybe 1/4 inch or so. I’m pulling the head now to get a better look

Where are you in Florida? Yes, pull the head to be certain of the damage. though not optimal, It would be easier to try to hook up the '11 replacement motor than to try to swap parts between a '17 and '11 motor. If you put the '11 in the car, it's uncertain how well the old motor will adapt. I would focus on fixing the '17 with '17 parts, based on what you find with the teardown. How much do you have in to the '11 motor?
SHOBLOCK

 

[RandR10]

I did the swap from a 2015 engine into a 2011 model year. The only thing you might run into is the later model engines used plastic valve covers instead of the cast aluminum ones on the earlier stuff. They added an extra boss and a threaded hole on the front (left) head for the updated valve cover that you'll lose if you swap to the earlier motor, so you may have issues getting your valve covers to seal. If you end up doing this, you may also have to locate all of the PCV plumbing from the older style engine and the coils (they're not the same) may not bolt to the older style valve covers, but otherwise I think it's doable. Things that definitely need to be swapped are cam sensors, cam solenoids, crank sensor and flex plate so make sure you save all of that from your old motor. From what I understand the 10-12 motors are harder to come by because they hadn't started using them in the Explorer Sport yet and the sales volumes were pretty low on the SHO and Flex Ecoboost for those model years, so I'm surprised you're going with one of those.

 

[RandR10]

Just FYI, the two engines internally are nearly identical. The internal part numbers on the updated engines are mostly the same, including the cams. That front head is different obviously since it needed to be to accept the plastic valve covers, and they did updated timing sets I think for 2012 model year (before the head update), but there is no difference internally that would make one not run in the other car. I've been running mine for 90k miles with absolutely zero issues.

 

[shoblock]

Just FYI, the two engines internally are nearly identical. The internal part numbers on the updated engines are mostly the same, including the cams. That front head is different obviously since it needed to be to accept the plastic valve covers, and they did updated timing sets I think for 2012 model year (before the head update), but there is no difference internally that would make one not run in the other car. I've been running mine for 90k miles with absolutely zero issues.

I believe the '11 still had a double timing chain and coarse bolt main bearings, so none of those parts will interchange.
SHOBLOCK

 

[Kingsped]

SHOBLOCK

I didn't have to change anything internally at all just a few sensors and the crank sensor and tone ring...
I'm sorry I wish I remembered all the sensors I had to swap from the 2010 engine, also the newer engine had plastic valve covers so i had to swap out the new plastic ones for the aluminum covers off the 2010 and you should do the water pump and complete timing set for sure and maybe even the oil pump while you're in there..

 

[Stefano]

Where are you in Florida? Yes, pull the head to be certain of the damage. though not optimal, It would be easier to try to hook up the '11 replacement motor than to try to swap parts between a '17 and '11 motor. If you put the '11 in the car, it's uncertain how well the old motor will adapt. I would focus on fixing the '17 with '17 parts, based on what you find with the teardown. How much do you have in to the '11 motor?
SHOBLOCK

I used to live in Fl but I’m up in Wisconsin now huge difference!! So I got the 2017 torn apart and the car is back together and running great. The 2 engines are almost identical except for one crucial area. Where the crank comes out of the oil pump there is a bigger diameter for farther out on the crankshaft than there is on the 11 because the two timing sets are different. I was able to machine the 17 sprocket to match the width of the 11 sprocket to get the timing set to match up. Other than that it’s just a few sliders you have to take from the 17 block for the chain guides. When I tore the 17 apart I learned that the block has no damage, the head on the other hand had a nice chunk missing and the right side intake cam had rust on one of the lobes. I was also worried about rod bearings I’ve always read that water or coolant will break rod bearings down.but It’s back together with new injectors full timing set and all new gaskets and fluids. The intake valves were about as dirty as you can imagine. But it’s running great starts right up every day!

 

[Stefano]

I didn't have to change anything internally at all just a few sensors and the crank sensor and tone ring...
I'm sorry I wish I remembered all the sensors I had to swap from the 2010 engine, also the newer engine had plastic valve covers so i had to swap out the new plastic ones for the aluminum covers off the 2010 and you should do the water pump and complete timing set for sure and maybe even the oil pump while you're in there..

I got it all done. The hardest part was measuring the new crank sprocket to machine it to the thickness of the 11 so the balancer can slide on and line up like it should. I swapped all the sensors over from the 17 the cam and crank sensors, and the tone ring. On the 11 the crank keeps the larger diameter for a further distance because the sprocket is slim so to make the new wider sprocket line up I flipped it over so the distance from the block matched the chain and machine the rest off.

 

[Stefano]

I did the swap from a 2015 engine into a 2011 model year. The only thing you might run into is the later model engines used plastic valve covers instead of the cast aluminum ones on the earlier stuff. They added an extra boss and a threaded hole on the front (left) head for the updated valve cover that you'll lose if you swap to the earlier motor, so you may have issues getting your valve covers to seal. If you end up doing this, you may also have to locate all of the PCV plumbing from the older style engine and the coils (they're not the same) may not bolt to the older style valve covers, but otherwise I think it's doable. Things that definitely need to be swapped are cam sensors, cam solenoids, crank sensor and flex plate so make sure you save all of that from your old motor. From what I understand the 10-12 motors are harder to come by because they hadn't started using them in the Explorer Sport yet and the sales volumes were pretty low on the SHO and Flex Ecoboost for those model years, so I'm surprised you're going with one of those.

I changed all that stuff over plus the slides for the timing chain guides. Then had to machine the new sprocket to match the thickness of the 11 since I’m using a new 17 timing set. It’s running good no codes amd I was able to clean the valves really well. I went with a 2011 motor simply because it had less than 100k (my 17 only has 67k) and it was less than 2grand. It came out of a running car that was totaled from a fender bender. So instead of buying an unsealed block I got this one knowing it runs with matching heads and crank

 

[Kingsped]

Good to hear
I kinda just realized that you were going from a MY17 to a MY11 engine so please forgive me if I said anything confusing, I went from a 2010 to 2017 so it was basically the same exact thing just in reverse because I went from older to newer and you went from newer to older...
Good to hear you got it done..
Do you still have your 17 front balancer ?
Or anything else ofc your 17 that still might be good ?