SM105K's SHO BIBLE/BUILDS/LIFE
- Thread starter SM105K
- Start date
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Mercedes are great so long as you don’t have any issues
GotGrip?
Conversation Ruiner
SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
To be honest and transparent, Aaron completely backed out of the deal. Couple of things happened and the deal was scrapped.
SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
I agree. I want to buy a 3 year old C63 S Sedan when it comes the time. They are holding in the 50K price range. If I could get anywhere between 10K to 15K for the SHO, then a 35k to 40K car note isn't such a big deal considering the upgrade in everything. I mean just a tune and the Merc will be putting out more power then 99.9% of any SHO on the road at over 600 to the tire. Plus rear wheel drive and a 9 speed will be nice. I will treat the Merc like the SHO and it will be a garage queen.
However, during that process I will be looking for a clean Gen 3 SHO to daily/slum around in LOL. I have owned a 1st Gen and a 5th Gen so I have to own an 3rd Gen to round out my SHO ownership.
When I decide to build something fast, I will get an older muscle car. Throw a 5th gen BBC with a pair Nagasaki Noisemakers and a Powerglide in it and let it eat on Methanol.
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SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
Some of you have already seen this...but....here it is.
I was doing some EP work in Vegas last weekend. We were suppose to have a couple black Escalades for vehicle ops but at the last minute we could only get one. So I brought the SHO into action.
The event went off without a hitch until Saturday night.
Every time I entered this parking garage I entered from the right, with a right hand turn. All was well until the one time I entered from the left with a left hand turn. I being exhausted I was paying attention and made the turn. I didn't notice how much steeper that side was and couple with the plastic dots....wham.
My front chin spoiler was destroyed. The splitter is completely fine. My front bumper cover took damage as well.
So yeah. I was disappointed, but I knew sooner or later it would happen. I just didn't think it would happen 300 miles from home.
So a bunch of gaffers tape later....it is back to ******* MINT condition.
I will be removing the whole set up, and replacing it with a stock chin spoiler. Hopefully the front bumper cover isn't completely *****'d but..no promises.
I was doing some EP work in Vegas last weekend. We were suppose to have a couple black Escalades for vehicle ops but at the last minute we could only get one. So I brought the SHO into action.
The event went off without a hitch until Saturday night.
Every time I entered this parking garage I entered from the right, with a right hand turn. All was well until the one time I entered from the left with a left hand turn. I being exhausted I was paying attention and made the turn. I didn't notice how much steeper that side was and couple with the plastic dots....wham.
My front chin spoiler was destroyed. The splitter is completely fine. My front bumper cover took damage as well.
So yeah. I was disappointed, but I knew sooner or later it would happen. I just didn't think it would happen 300 miles from home.
So a bunch of gaffers tape later....it is back to ******* MINT condition.
I will be removing the whole set up, and replacing it with a stock chin spoiler. Hopefully the front bumper cover isn't completely *****'d but..no promises.
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luigisho
SHO Member
That is why I am leery of those things except for track only duty. Real world isn't flat enough. I also learned lessons with hard to find wheels I really like. Busted the damn metal on one that was a daily driver. Inconvenient trying to find a replacement when just finding one could take months. Life lessons. Education ain't free
Besides, you can't chase perps and worry about clearance.
Besides, you can't chase perps and worry about clearance.
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SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
I agree 100%. I wasn't evening going to bring the SHO, but I had to at the last minute. The whole reason I put the set up on, was because I wasnt DD'ing anymore. However, it is what it is.
Damn buddy! I know your pain! Sucks
ButtonPuncher
New Member
Ooouuuuch. Sorry to see the carnage. Good work with the gaff tape. I love that stuff. (Got hooked when I used to work in TV.)
My main reason for posting... Thanks for creating this thread and putting in all of the maintenance info! I'm an experienced car guy but a noob to the EB stuff. I'm also a massive proponent of preventative maintenance. You can either do planned cheap work regularly OR have an unplanned massive expense.
I love the license plate. Ego checker. F'ing perfect. LOVE IT. I also thought, why does he hate frozen waffles? (Eggo chucker.)
I'm planning on getting an EB Police Interceptor, hopefully this week! For the plate I was thinking of SHO NO. Is is a SHO? No. Or OH NO you got beat by a TAURUS!
Once I get it fully built and in to the 11's, I'm going to change it to DUEL MTR. To poke fun at the Tesla people.
I need to research this more but I don't see anyone talking about it... Why are people constraining themselves to the stock turbo form factor? It looks like there's room on the front for a regular T25/T3 frame turbo. Is the rear turbo super tight as far as space is concerned? I look at the dyno graphs and cringe. At 5k, it falls on it's face. It's obvious that the turbine housings are severely limiting flow. If you could get the backpressure out of the stratosphere, you could make more HP on top which would also be easier on the drivetrain.
Or has anyone tried a single turbo setup? Run a pipe from the rear manifold and merge it in at the front?
I can't wait until I get one of these cars so I can start playing. It'll be awesome to have something that can actually by tuned. (Former Mazda 6 V6 guy.)
Thanks,
Ben
My main reason for posting... Thanks for creating this thread and putting in all of the maintenance info! I'm an experienced car guy but a noob to the EB stuff. I'm also a massive proponent of preventative maintenance. You can either do planned cheap work regularly OR have an unplanned massive expense.
I love the license plate. Ego checker. F'ing perfect. LOVE IT. I also thought, why does he hate frozen waffles? (Eggo chucker.)
I'm planning on getting an EB Police Interceptor, hopefully this week! For the plate I was thinking of SHO NO. Is is a SHO? No. Or OH NO you got beat by a TAURUS!
Once I get it fully built and in to the 11's, I'm going to change it to DUEL MTR. To poke fun at the Tesla people.
I need to research this more but I don't see anyone talking about it... Why are people constraining themselves to the stock turbo form factor? It looks like there's room on the front for a regular T25/T3 frame turbo. Is the rear turbo super tight as far as space is concerned? I look at the dyno graphs and cringe. At 5k, it falls on it's face. It's obvious that the turbine housings are severely limiting flow. If you could get the backpressure out of the stratosphere, you could make more HP on top which would also be easier on the drivetrain.
Or has anyone tried a single turbo setup? Run a pipe from the rear manifold and merge it in at the front?
I can't wait until I get one of these cars so I can start playing. It'll be awesome to have something that can actually by tuned. (Former Mazda 6 V6 guy.)
Thanks,
Ben
Bluezone
Tailgaters will be prosecuted.
Dadmobile just posted up somewhere on the forum pictures of a single turbo installation.
One thing you got to remember is with these cars is it's a package deal with the engine. Cam, intake and exhaust are tuned for an RPM range profile. If they're out of sync it doesn't quite work. With out alternative intake manifold Runner length tuning, you end up with the cam not working with the intake manifold or the exhaust. That's why the first generation sho was such incredible execution in engine design.
Sure with the turbo pushing at the air through you can extend that and modify the intended operating range. But you're still hooked to that basic operating condition of Runner length. That's one of the reasons why variable length intake manifolds became a thing.
I actually came up with a good variable intake runner design years ago and was set to patent and find someone to buy or manufacturer the idea. Unfortunately by the time plans had gelled into a useful form , Ferrari had come out with a new car model and the patented intake manifold design that looks incredibly like one I had designed. LOL so much for that.
But I digress. The short answer is you need. Half an inch to a full inch shorter intake runner to bump up the RPM sweet spot at least a thousand RPM. Do that and then horsepower numbers will start to impressively improve. Add to that finding a way to divorce (or a trial separation) the coolant passages from intake manifold. These engines are a torque monster with the turbo.
One thing you got to remember is with these cars is it's a package deal with the engine. Cam, intake and exhaust are tuned for an RPM range profile. If they're out of sync it doesn't quite work. With out alternative intake manifold Runner length tuning, you end up with the cam not working with the intake manifold or the exhaust. That's why the first generation sho was such incredible execution in engine design.
Sure with the turbo pushing at the air through you can extend that and modify the intended operating range. But you're still hooked to that basic operating condition of Runner length. That's one of the reasons why variable length intake manifolds became a thing.
I actually came up with a good variable intake runner design years ago and was set to patent and find someone to buy or manufacturer the idea. Unfortunately by the time plans had gelled into a useful form , Ferrari had come out with a new car model and the patented intake manifold design that looks incredibly like one I had designed. LOL so much for that.
But I digress. The short answer is you need. Half an inch to a full inch shorter intake runner to bump up the RPM sweet spot at least a thousand RPM. Do that and then horsepower numbers will start to impressively improve. Add to that finding a way to divorce (or a trial separation) the coolant passages from intake manifold. These engines are a torque monster with the turbo.
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Ecoboost_xsport
SHO Member
Ooouuuuch. Sorry to see the carnage. Good work with the gaff tape. I love that stuff. (Got hooked when I used to work in TV.)
My main reason for posting... Thanks for creating this thread and putting in all of the maintenance info! I'm an experienced car guy but a noob to the EB stuff. I'm also a massive proponent of preventative maintenance. You can either do planned cheap work regularly OR have an unplanned massive expense.
I love the license plate. Ego checker. F'ing perfect. LOVE IT. I also thought, why does he hate frozen waffles? (Eggo chucker.)
I'm planning on getting an EB Police Interceptor, hopefully this week! For the plate I was thinking of SHO NO. Is is a SHO? No. Or OH NO you got beat by a TAURUS!
Once I get it fully built and in to the 11's, I'm going to change it to DUEL MTR. To poke fun at the Tesla people.
I need to research this more but I don't see anyone talking about it... Why are people constraining themselves to the stock turbo form factor? It looks like there's room on the front for a regular T25/T3 frame turbo. Is the rear turbo super tight as far as space is concerned? I look at the dyno graphs and cringe. At 5k, it falls on it's face. It's obvious that the turbine housings are severely limiting flow. If you could get the backpressure out of the stratosphere, you could make more HP on top which would also be easier on the drivetrain.
Or has anyone tried a single turbo setup? Run a pipe from the rear manifold and merge it in at the front?
I can't wait until I get one of these cars so I can start playing. It'll be awesome to have something that can actually by tuned. (Former Mazda 6 V6 guy.)
Thanks,
Ben
Yes, the rear turbo is EXTREMELY tight. There's a few one offs running around, Ryan Spencer has a big single setup...and @bpd1151 is installing what look to be a pair of G25-550/660. So these things have/are being attempted.
Real limiting issue is the transmission and fueling. Getting these engines to make big numbers isn't the problem. It's getting it past the weak 6F55. Raybestos is dropping some friction clutches here soon that will help some, but there's more needed. LSD for the front/rear would be a game changer, I believe. Throw some billet parts at the trans to handle higher loads, etc...
And don't forget fuel...the Achilles heel, IMHO, is the LPFP...the in-tank pump. Not many options right now. I've got a dual pump I'm working as well as figuring a hellcat pump install, so there may be some things on the horizon...
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This is exactly what Matt at Max Power Automotive is doing to my intake. Cut open, ported, removed 3/4” runner length and welded back together. Sold my phenolic spacer bc that adds runner length. So it’ll be interesting.
SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
Ooouuuuch. Sorry to see the carnage. Good work with the gaff tape. I love that stuff. (Got hooked when I used to work in TV.)
My main reason for posting... Thanks for creating this thread and putting in all of the maintenance info! I'm an experienced car guy but a noob to the EB stuff. I'm also a massive proponent of preventative maintenance. You can either do planned cheap work regularly OR have an unplanned massive expense.
I love the license plate. Ego checker. F'ing perfect. LOVE IT. I also thought, why does he hate frozen waffles? (Eggo chucker.)
I'm planning on getting an EB Police Interceptor, hopefully this week! For the plate I was thinking of SHO NO. Is is a SHO? No. Or OH NO you got beat by a TAURUS!
Once I get it fully built and in to the 11's, I'm going to change it to DUEL MTR. To poke fun at the Tesla people.
I need to research this more but I don't see anyone talking about it... Why are people constraining themselves to the stock turbo form factor? It looks like there's room on the front for a regular T25/T3 frame turbo. Is the rear turbo super tight as far as space is concerned? I look at the dyno graphs and cringe. At 5k, it falls on it's face. It's obvious that the turbine housings are severely limiting flow. If you could get the backpressure out of the stratosphere, you could make more HP on top which would also be easier on the drivetrain.
Or has anyone tried a single turbo setup? Run a pipe from the rear manifold and merge it in at the front?
I can't wait until I get one of these cars so I can start playing. It'll be awesome to have something that can actually by tuned. (Former Mazda 6 V6 guy.)
Thanks,
Ben
Haha, yeah my splitter bit the dust. I know it would happen, I just didn't want it to happen 300 miles from my house. However, I learned a lot with the install, however you could not daily something like that.
No worries about the info posted. It just evolved over time, and I just started using it as journal for my ownership.
Wow finally somebody else who gets it! Can we be bff's please?Ooouuuuch. Sorry to see the carnage. Good work with the gaff tape. I love that stuff. (Got hooked when I used to work in TV.)
My main reason for posting... Thanks for creating this thread and putting in all of the maintenance info! I'm an experienced car guy but a noob to the EB stuff. I'm also a massive proponent of preventative maintenance. You can either do planned cheap work regularly OR have an unplanned massive expense.
I love the license plate. Ego checker. F'ing perfect. LOVE IT. I also thought, why does he hate frozen waffles? (Eggo chucker.)
I'm planning on getting an EB Police Interceptor, hopefully this week! For the plate I was thinking of SHO NO. Is is a SHO? No. Or OH NO you got beat by a TAURUS!
Once I get it fully built and in to the 11's, I'm going to change it to DUEL MTR. To poke fun at the Tesla people.
I need to research this more but I don't see anyone talking about it... Why are people constraining themselves to the stock turbo form factor? It looks like there's room on the front for a regular T25/T3 frame turbo. Is the rear turbo super tight as far as space is concerned? I look at the dyno graphs and cringe. At 5k, it falls on it's face. It's obvious that the turbine housings are severely limiting flow. If you could get the backpressure out of the stratosphere, you could make more HP on top which would also be easier on the drivetrain.
Or has anyone tried a single turbo setup? Run a pipe from the rear manifold and merge it in at the front?
I can't wait until I get one of these cars so I can start playing. It'll be awesome to have something that can actually by tuned. (Former Mazda 6 V6 guy.)
Thanks,
Ben
The answer to your question is ignorance mostly. There's a lot of people who will blindly follow shill recommendations. These engines naturally want to make peak horsepower in the 6300-6600 rpm range. Literally the only things holding it back from doing so are the turbines. But when the only remaining producer of a bolt-on turbo upgrade intentionally designs them to lug your engine at useless rpm ranges instead of make power, what do you do? You go along with it, or look to a different power adder.
With the right progressive nitrous setup I believe 650whp is attainable without any more stress to the drivetrain than your typical e30 tune, and with a total mod budget <$3000. I swear I've filled my shopping cart at the NX website at least three times. But with no free time (working a lot, house projects, two kids under 3, wife with a fu cked up retail work schedule) I can't bring myself to pull the trigger.
Bluezone
Tailgaters will be prosecuted.
Here's the picture of the Ferrari engine with the similar intake manifold design. This is their design, but all the same pieces are there.
Some more information on variable length intake tracks.
Sorry about the hijack SMK105K.
Some more information on variable length intake tracks.
Sorry about the hijack SMK105K.
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SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
Don't be, everything here de-rails here and there. It is what it is.
ButtonPuncher
New Member
You guys rock. I love that you are getting stuff done. You also know W.T.F you are talking about. Very few people really understand forced induction, tuning, and all of the engine variables that make it work.
@stripSHO Bff's? Sure! LOL!
@Bluezone Incredible. Patent and everything. There's some big brains on this forum. I love it!
@Ecoboost_xsport Yeah, so far I read about the upcoming Raybestos frictions and I hear that GH also makes an upgraded TC (but I didn't see it on their site). I'm guessing beefier snap rings are a must after hearing about SM105K's trans failure.
@802SHO That is AWESOME. I'm interested to see the reults.
@SM105K Yeah, sorry to clog up your thread. I was just really eager to ask someone knowledgeable about the platform. I didn't want to start off some flame war with a new thread about stuff that's been rehashed over and over again. Sorry (not sorry) I want to reply to you guys for all of your awesome info.
A few thoughts...
LSD: Wait..WHAT?!? I thought the SHO had an e-locker (wheel braking) to prevent wheelspin. If you guys have a good trans and rear end laying around and can afford to be without the diffs for a while, you've gotta contact M-Factory. They'll make helical LSD's. I've personally seen them do it for the Ford Contour and Mazda 6 platforms, along with numerous others. There needs to be a large group buy from them to do it. Probably 20 people or more for them to dedicate the time/money and effort developing them. Just tell them what all else that it would work in and maybe do a multiple-forum group buy with Exploder guys too. I don't even own a SHO yet and I'd get in on that. LSD's are magic. My Chevy Astro is going to have a helical M-factory in the front and a helical Eaton in the rear.
I don't know if he's still there but the guy that I talked to was Stephen Yeh in their R&D department back in 2014. I was going to get one made for the Aisin TF81SC in my Mazda 6.
[email protected]
CAM: It'd be interesting to use the 3.7L Mazda 6 cam as a base but add the HPFP lobe on to it. It breathes and pulls well. Unlike the Mustang, the Mazda 6 only had VCT on the exhaust cam, not on the intake cam, just like the Ecoboost 3.5. The engines are almost identical. I was originally going to use the EB manifolds and turbos on my Mazda 6 but I couldn't find ANYONE who could tune the V6. Shiny new manifolds and stock SHO downpipes are still sitting in my closet. DOH! But anyway, I wonder if we could send both to Comp or Crower and say put the HPFP lobes from this, on this. And give the HPFP lobes a TINY increase in height. I wonder how much extra travel that the stock pump has that isn't being used.
Turbo: Oh, OK, the single turbo idea makes even more sense. Bolt on the F150 EB manifold to the back of the motor, run a crossover pipe over the top of the ATX, well wrapped, and make a custom adapter to merge the front manifold with the crossover pipe in to a divided turbo. Then run a single 4" downpipe to a 2-to-1 4" to 2.5" adapter to re-use the stock exhaust. ...I really need a welder. I need to check out what that other guy has done. I'm guessing we'd need some resistors to trick the computer in to thinking that the rear WGA and BOV are still there. It'd probably throw an open circuit fault without it. I already plotted a bunch of compressor maps for when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to run on my 3.7L. Now I'm interested to see what single turbos would work.
Intake Manifold spacer: Has anyone ever tried 3D printing one? Not much to a spacer. I just got a 3D printer (still in the box). I'd give it a shot once I get that stuff figured out. Then I'd have the base for a stealth-ish under manifold aux fuel setup. That'd make the runners even longer but full E85 and no $2,500 HPFP would be nice.
Thanks,
Ben
@stripSHO Bff's? Sure! LOL!
@Bluezone Incredible. Patent and everything. There's some big brains on this forum. I love it!
@Ecoboost_xsport Yeah, so far I read about the upcoming Raybestos frictions and I hear that GH also makes an upgraded TC (but I didn't see it on their site). I'm guessing beefier snap rings are a must after hearing about SM105K's trans failure.
@802SHO That is AWESOME. I'm interested to see the reults.
@SM105K Yeah, sorry to clog up your thread. I was just really eager to ask someone knowledgeable about the platform. I didn't want to start off some flame war with a new thread about stuff that's been rehashed over and over again. Sorry (not sorry) I want to reply to you guys for all of your awesome info.
A few thoughts...
LSD: Wait..WHAT?!? I thought the SHO had an e-locker (wheel braking) to prevent wheelspin. If you guys have a good trans and rear end laying around and can afford to be without the diffs for a while, you've gotta contact M-Factory. They'll make helical LSD's. I've personally seen them do it for the Ford Contour and Mazda 6 platforms, along with numerous others. There needs to be a large group buy from them to do it. Probably 20 people or more for them to dedicate the time/money and effort developing them. Just tell them what all else that it would work in and maybe do a multiple-forum group buy with Exploder guys too. I don't even own a SHO yet and I'd get in on that. LSD's are magic. My Chevy Astro is going to have a helical M-factory in the front and a helical Eaton in the rear.
I don't know if he's still there but the guy that I talked to was Stephen Yeh in their R&D department back in 2014. I was going to get one made for the Aisin TF81SC in my Mazda 6.
[email protected]
CAM: It'd be interesting to use the 3.7L Mazda 6 cam as a base but add the HPFP lobe on to it. It breathes and pulls well. Unlike the Mustang, the Mazda 6 only had VCT on the exhaust cam, not on the intake cam, just like the Ecoboost 3.5. The engines are almost identical. I was originally going to use the EB manifolds and turbos on my Mazda 6 but I couldn't find ANYONE who could tune the V6. Shiny new manifolds and stock SHO downpipes are still sitting in my closet. DOH! But anyway, I wonder if we could send both to Comp or Crower and say put the HPFP lobes from this, on this. And give the HPFP lobes a TINY increase in height. I wonder how much extra travel that the stock pump has that isn't being used.
Turbo: Oh, OK, the single turbo idea makes even more sense. Bolt on the F150 EB manifold to the back of the motor, run a crossover pipe over the top of the ATX, well wrapped, and make a custom adapter to merge the front manifold with the crossover pipe in to a divided turbo. Then run a single 4" downpipe to a 2-to-1 4" to 2.5" adapter to re-use the stock exhaust. ...I really need a welder. I need to check out what that other guy has done. I'm guessing we'd need some resistors to trick the computer in to thinking that the rear WGA and BOV are still there. It'd probably throw an open circuit fault without it. I already plotted a bunch of compressor maps for when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to run on my 3.7L. Now I'm interested to see what single turbos would work.
Intake Manifold spacer: Has anyone ever tried 3D printing one? Not much to a spacer. I just got a 3D printer (still in the box). I'd give it a shot once I get that stuff figured out. Then I'd have the base for a stealth-ish under manifold aux fuel setup. That'd make the runners even longer but full E85 and no $2,500 HPFP would be nice.
Thanks,
Ben
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SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
I have been having issues with my noisemaker delete pipe de-coupling under boost. So I took it off, scuffed it up, and then Herculined it. Cleaned the throttle body and coupler, intercooler coupler and did a maintenance check. Sprayed the **** out of the couplers with hairspray and re-installed the pipe. Between the rough texture and hairspray that **** better not come off again.
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